CRD or not

99fivenine · **Joined:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:23 pm **Posts:** 3

Well I HAD made up my mind quite a while ago about buying a CRD in the future, and I have been looking for the last year and found quite a few decent rigs. I've read the noob guide and all of that seems pretty straight forward with the necessary mods and what to watch out for.
When the CRD first came out my brother and I had test drove a few different ones to try to find a replacement for his '01 XJ which he and his wife used to move from New Hampshire to Washington state and back again a year later without a hitch, he loved the CRD and we both thought it was a great vehicle from the test drives, especially when one of the Jeep dealers let us take one out on our own for over an hour. That said he started finding some of the issues on the internet (like I said this was in '06 when they were first being released) and ended up buying a TDI Jetta.
I was looking to buy a CRD for my girlfriend who desperately needs 4wd (she drives a gas Jetta now which is a POS) and I can find relatively low mileage CRDs around here for not too much money.
Everything we drive is diesel as long as it makes sense, I drive a 24v Dodge Cummins and so I understand the minor hitches that must be addressed, with my truck it is the fuel system and poor lift pump. I like the longevity of the diesels and the mileage which is my main reason for wanting a CRD in the first place, since we could get the same mileage she gets with her Jetta but actually have 4wd.

That said my original plan was to get a 50k~ mile CRD and immediately put the GDE tune in it and keep the the Jetta for a year to make sure there were no major hitches with the CRD.
BUT I must admit I've been lurking on here for a while now, well over a year actually, and I have read multiple threads that have almost completely turned me off of the CRDs. I just need some opinions on whether I should throw in the towel on them or bite the bullet and just hope it works out alright.
The main things that worry me are that I have read one thread where someone lost their engine due to a bad turbo, I must say I don't understand how this is possible since losing a turbo on a diesel isn't all that rare and I've never heard of a diesel engine dying due to a turbo grenading.
Secondly I have been seeing a lot about glow plugs failing. This is a concern for me since we live in New Hampshire and it gets pretty cold here, the winter before last it was -10 or so for a week straight.

I am fairly familiar with diesels, I work as a crop manager for a dairy farm and also with my parents custom haying business so I'm around diesels all the time, yet I'm not sure this one is meant for me.
I'd really like to get rid of the gas Jetta for a small, diesel, 4wd SUV and as of now this is the only one that fits the bill. My girlfriend manages a large horse barn here and usually leaves for work early in the morning around 530am, nothing is usually completely plowed at that point which is our main reason for needing 4wd, I'm just worried that adequate warm up time might be an issue. I usually just plug my truck in every night during the cold spells during the winter, does the CRD even have a block heater?

Sorry for the rambling questions and what not but I'm really up in the air on these things now, I had made up my mind before but after searching around I'm not so sure now.
So should I get into one or not? I don't want to borrow money on a CRD just to have it explode while I'm paying it off.

99fivenine · **Joined:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:23 pm **Posts:** 3

Sorry should have thrown this in there too!

Thanks in advance

Mark

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:35 pm

I say if you are mechanically inclined, do it. Some have problems, while a lot do not. Like most forums, you won't hear much from folks with no trouble. I know a guy who bought his new, and at nearly 200K, he has had nearly no trouble. There are lots of folks out there in the same boat. You won't find a more capable diesel suv in this price range. I guess it is whatever you feel comfortable with. I have owned many diesels, and they all seem to have their quirks. The way I look at it is that it is a neat vehicle. I'd rather the CRD than something that is boring and common, but that is just me...

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:40 pm

You have read about all the issues so you should know what you are in for.

As far as I am concerned, if you are not scared to get your hands a bit dirty and maintain your CRD well then there is nothing like it. I think the main reason for turbos blowing is not enough wind-down time is applied before turning off after a long trip.

I love the CRD fuel efficiency and "Love that torque" so intend to always have a diesel in my life.

graycenphil · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:28 pm

We have an 06 which has been mostly trouble free for 60k. It is a very nice vehicle, though not perfect.

It does have a block heater, factory installed, but I have never used it. It starts fine at below zero temps even without it.

I also have a Dodge 24v and a Jetta tdi. The Jeep isn't perfect, but if you want a small 4wd diesel, it is about the only choice.

LS12FAST4U · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:28 pm

I have 108 k on mine with no issues at all other then regular maintenance and my thermostat went bad. I think most people as long as they take care of it and maintain it have little to no problems. When it comes to people grenading the engine I personally believe its really the drivers fault and they blame it on something mechanical because they won't admit that they ignored the oil leak at the turbo for 9 months or they haven't changed the oil in 30k miles.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:14 pm

These CRD's can be tough to deal with even if your a mechanic like my self. Even if you follow the manual and maintain it well. Without stopping the EGR you going to have problems. Be prepaired for problems if you get one with over 70k without the EGR being stopped.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:58 pm

The key is whether if you do not get one, you will endlessly regret NOT getting one. It used to have unique properties among NA legal vehicles. Now the latest VW Toureg and the Porsche variant match its characteristics in terms of towing capacity and fuel economy. However, you can have a pretty squared away KJ CRD now for about $8K. The Porsche is about $80K.

We now know that at 100K miles, if the bulk of those miles have not been with a GDE tune, rockers MUST be replaced due to the cumulative effects of sooty oil. What we do NOT know yet is what OTHER consequences there may be down the road from this beyond premature rocker wear.

Also, lots of these have had the pistons hit the valves, broken the rockers and been brought back to reasonable running with new rockers. However, people do not usually report compression or leakdown numbers after rebuild. So, we do not know how these "rehabbed" motors are likely to hold up. Not enough miles and time have passed, yet. Several bottom ends have let go, but no clear and consistent culprit for these has been found, yet. Each one seems to have had some significant differences, but running a lot with sooty oil has probably been the most common element.

For the rare individual for whom this is a reasonable vehicle, they are getting so cheap, why not?

DOC

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:43 pm

I have over 3,000 posts on this forum, and I am one of those owners who has lost a CRD turbo and the engine shortly after.

I also lost a second engine without losing the turbo or any other attendent failures. I am meticulous about maintenance on my vehicles, I have 5 vehicles that have exceeded 200k miles, 3 that are currently over 250k. The CRD isn't one of them.

I'd be happy to discuss the engine problems with the CRD all day long, but it probably would be faster for you to just search threads that I have started. The oil feed to the turbo can blow all the oil out in less than 30 seconds if the turbo blows. That is what I suspect happened on engine #1. After replacing the turbo, the bottom end blew. The bottom end and the oil passages are extremely narrow in this engine and the result is engine oil starvation - even when it is still full of oil. That is what killed engine #2. The bearings on the bottom end rotted out from lack of lubrication, the cap broke and the #4 rod was smashed through the wall of the block.

With engine #2, it was never low on oil. Neither engine ever had coolant loss. Neither engine ever overheated. Oil was changed at either 3000 or 6000 miles, and was always either Mobil 1 Delvac (Truck and SUV is the same product) or Shell Rotella T6 fully synthetic.

I have never had a vehicle with so many maintenance problems or repairs needed. Take ALL this into consideration if you are ever thinking of a CRD for yourself or your family. Me? Never again, if a Touareg diesel was available for a reasonable price I might consider that... But never again for ANY chrysler or VM product for my family.

LS12FAST4U · **Posted:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:35 pm

geordi wrote:

I have over 3,000 posts on this forum, and I am one of those owners who has lost a CRD turbo and the engine shortly after.

I also lost a second engine without losing the turbo or any other attendent failures. I am meticulous about maintenance on my vehicles, I have 5 vehicles that have exceeded 200k miles, 3 that are currently over 250k. The CRD isn't one of them.

I'd be happy to discuss the engine problems with the CRD all day long, but it probably would be faster for you to just search threads that I have started. The oil feed to the turbo can blow all the oil out in less than 30 seconds if the turbo blows. That is what I suspect happened on engine #1. After replacing the turbo, the bottom end blew. The bottom end and the oil passages are extremely narrow in this engine and the result is engine oil starvation - even when it is still full of oil. That is what killed engine #2. The bearings on the bottom end rotted out from lack of lubrication, the cap broke and the #4 rod was smashed through the wall of the block.

With engine #2, it was never low on oil. Neither engine ever had coolant loss. Neither engine ever overheated. Oil was changed at either 3000 or 6000 miles, and was always either Mobil 1 Delvac (Truck and SUV is the same product) or Shell Rotella T6 fully synthetic.

I have never had a vehicle with so many maintenance problems or repairs needed. Take ALL this into consideration if you are ever thinking of a CRD for yourself or your family. Me? Never again, if a Touareg diesel was available for a reasonable price I might consider that... But never again for ANY chrysler or VM product for my family.

This guy just has the worst luck or no luck at all.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:27 am

Hard to argue with that, but he is, to my knowlege, the ONLY one whose oil never started "staying clean" a while after adding a GDE tune. His oil was always opaque black immediately after a change, as is the case with NA spec VM 2.8s that have not been modified.

This is not enough to prove anything, but is the best working hypothesis, at the moment.

Also, it is still a mystery why his soot levels did not dramatically drop as they have for virtually everyone else with GDE tunes.

DOC

99fivenine · **Joined:** Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:23 pm **Posts:** 3

Well I appreciate all the replies, and yes those were some of the posts that I read that startled me, I guess I just have to go look look at some of these CRDs and see what we think. The problem is I know I really want one it's just whether or not I should get it.
All the ones I'm look at are '06s and the fewest miles is around 40k and the most is at 73k. I'd like to buy something in the 50k mile range and I know when I go to look at them I'll have them pull out the EGR to see what it looks like, same with the oil. Also depends what I can talk the dealers down to.
I'll keep reading on here and see what I come up with, and the fact it is a Chrysler product doesn't bother me since I actually want to buy an American built vehicle, that way I can buy comparatively cheap body and drive train parts (compared to say a VW where everything has to come from the dealer), that said I realize the engine is a VM and that those are the problem parts, which is the entire reason I would like to buy one (since it's a diesel) but at the same time the whole reason I'm skeptical of buying one.

I have noticed on here there are quite a few users that post about buying a CRD, buy one and then never post again, so that would lead me to believe there are quite a few happy owners out there.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:15 pm

Or they have been driven insane by their new Italian mistress and she drove them to drink themselves to death. This is also a possibility.

Removing the EGR prior to purchase will not be possible. It (and all of its components) are buried at the back of the engine to greatly discourage tampering and removal.

I don't know what the story is with the soot in both my CRD engines. The EGR was disabled from the first week I owned it (starting at 30k miles) and lost engine #1 at 60k. I got the GDE eco tune with engine #2 which also had 60k miles on it, EGR remained disabled.

When I tore down engine #1 to scrap it (because the damned mechanic left it SITTING OUT IN THE RAIN for 2 months after I told them to save it for me to rebuild! :banghead:

) there weren't any signs of oil plugging in the crank area, and the passages all seemed generally clean. The bearings however, had obviously been badly overheated and were in varying stages of melting out of their bores.

Engine #2 has not been torn down yet, the new owner says he will do this, and believes that it may be possible to return that block to operation. At least we will get to know what happened... Maybe.

My new vehicle is a 2003 TDI with 244k on it when I bought it, and BONE STOCK. The intake was not plugged (amazing) and the oil was black as coal dust. I promptly obtained a "racepipe" to remove / plug / disable the EGR, and changed the oil. After the first oil change, the oil remains translucent throughout the oil change life, and nearly clear on the dipstick for (a guess) about a thousand miles. This NEVER happened with the CRD, for reasons that I still do not understand. Two different engines, two different oil systems in those engines... No change in results.

Others on here have lost the bottom end of their engines as well, so this is not just an isolated problem with my engines.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:35 pm

I would get Torque Pro and an ELM327 so you can quickly run the MAF test on any prospective candidate. If you can find one with only 40K miles that has been run stock, without a GDE tune, it will probably not be too bad. However, one with 100K where the last 80 were run with a GDE tune will probably be significantly better.

BTW, if the one you get does not have any EGR codes, odds are very good that if you immediately install a GDE ECU tune, you may never have an EGR problem. If you are not in a position to replace the TC right away, I would strongly suggest the standard ECO tune. This will protect your TC and transmission. When you can afford to upgrade the TC to handle more torque, it is only $50 to upgrade the ECU tune.

Best of luck with your quest.

DOC

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:52 pm

As Keith has recently clarified, the reason the oil stays so clean with a GDE tune is only PARTLY due to eliminating exhaust gasses from being burned. It has a LOT to due with injection settings which result in much more complete combustion, drastically reducing soot buildup in the oil.

I can actually confirm this from my own experience. I ran from about 20K miles to 50K with SEGR and an InMotion SII tune, and the oil was always opaque black right after a change. I started running GDE tunes at 50K and at about 70K, the oil remained translucent for 3K miles after a change.

The weird thing is that I believe Geordi ran a GDE tune on at least one of his motors and possibly both, but his oil never "cleaned up".

There is more to figure out....

DOC

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:27 pm

Read up above - I answered your question before you asked it.

Engine 1 had only SEGR from 30k-60k, engine 2 had SEGR and GDE, and eventually the EGR pipes were completely removed and plugged.

I have no answer why the oil never cleared up.

camo · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:15 pm

my oil stays clean well pass 6k miles, and my oil changes happened between 6 to 7 miles. there has been a coulple of times were the oil looks a bit cleaner than my wife's gasoline patriot at the time of oil change.
Install the GDE next day after i got my 2nd CRD (current one) and wouldn't doubt driving anywhere with it.

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:24 pm

The two best things you can do for your CRD!

1. Stop EGR.
2. Drive it easy at low RPM's like a Diesel should be. (its not a Mustang)

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:42 am

kjjet wrote:

The two best things you can do for your CRD!

1. Stop EGR.
2. Drive it easy at low RPM's like a Diesel should be. (its not a Mustang)

Here in New England, the road speed is a little low. With my GDE ECO and TCM, I hit 5th-lockup at 58 mph, and then settle back down to the traffic flow, usually around 55 mph. Yes, it is really that slow here. I run about 1.5-1.6K rpm at that speed, maybe less (I forget).

I had reconnected my crankcase ventilation to the inlet, as I got sick of dripping oil and explaining unpleasant fumes. I realize my mpgs are lower than most (average 23.6 mpg over 55K miles). DOC444 once explained to me (July of 2012) that my brakes might be dragging, and explained to me how to fix that, but as I was in the midst of changing the timing belt, I had difficulty focusing on his explanation. I'll have to ask sometime...

jlgail4309 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:22 pm

geordi wrote:

Or they have been driven insane by their new Italian mistress and she drove them to drink themselves to death. This is also a possibility.

Removing the EGR prior to purchase will not be possible. It (and all of its components) are buried at the back of the engine to greatly discourage tampering and removal.

I don't know what the story is with the soot in both my CRD engines. The EGR was disabled from the first week I owned it (starting at 30k miles) and lost engine #1 at 60k. I got the GDE eco tune with engine #2 which also had 60k miles on it, EGR remained disabled.

When I tore down engine #1 to scrap it (because the damned mechanic left it SITTING OUT IN THE RAIN for 2 months after I told them to save it for me to rebuild! :banghead:

) there weren't any signs of oil plugging in the crank area, and the passages all seemed generally clean. The bearings however, had obviously been badly overheated and were in varying stages of melting out of their bores.

Engine #2 has not been torn down yet, the new owner says he will do this, and believes that it may be possible to return that block to operation. At least we will get to know what happened... Maybe.

My new vehicle is a 2003 TDI with 244k on it when I bought it, and BONE STOCK. The intake was not plugged (amazing) and the oil was black as coal dust. I promptly obtained a "racepipe" to remove / plug / disable the EGR, and changed the oil. After the first oil change, the oil remains translucent throughout the oil change life, and nearly clear on the dipstick for (a guess) about a thousand miles. This NEVER happened with the CRD, for reasons that I still do not understand. Two different engines, two different oil systems in those engines... No change in results.

Others on here have lost the bottom end of their engines as well, so this is not just an isolated problem with my engines.

geordi didn't you tow a 7000 pound generator around with the CRD.

CRD or not

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