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| Rocker damage Question http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76225 |
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| Author: | toy_vw [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rocker damage Question |
Hey guys, I've been a lurker for a few weeks now...Finally joined this great community Quick one to begin with bought a 06 CRD.. Ordered a timing belt and have been waiting for it... I was cruising on the highway doing 120km/h...went to pass someone and then BOOM white/blue smoke...engine running on 3 cylinders. Got off the highway and rolled into my shop..maybe 3 km drive.. Pulled the injectors thinking one had stuck open...But after testing them backleakage and spray pattern was excellent. SOOO I did a compression test. 100 PSI on cylinder 4...SHIIIIZZZ. Began the "process" of removing the intake manifold/valve cover/ everything attached on the top of engine...and found rockers damaged... out of 16 rockers.3 were good. 4 completely failed. 9 about to go anyday now. I was reading through the thread about measuring the maf flow and rocker damage etc. BUT didnt see anything on............ "has anyone had these fail and lost total compression/engine running on 3 cylinder" Im replacing all these components as parts roll in from greece/IDparts.. I just want to see if anyone has found damaged valves/ anything else.. Belt didnt slip, non of that stuff.. ive got 220kms on the girl...and it did seem under powered compared to a friends CRD so I had planned to inspect the rockers...just didnt think it would take 2.5 hrs to pull the "valve cover" hahahah let me know what you guys have experienced.. thanks |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
Could have a damaged/broken valve and/or broken glow plug tip. Might want to check all of that before you install rockers. Good luck! |
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| Author: | toy_vw [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
anticipating all those issues...waiting for a collegue to bring me his inspection scope to peak inside without pulling the head... Just sucks...I found some axial play on the turbo, so I had just finished dropping off an oem vnt 20 and having a 22 compressor wheel installed, Prepping for the southcoast trans mods, and harassing GDE for their "bigger" turbo software... Then bang...more things take a turn for the worst.... We will see how much i can see with the scope...then go from there... was just hoping to see what people noticed when their rockers failed... I had just performed the maf flow test...and had a reading under 10....then all of a sudden a reading of 16...which I presumed was the egr shutting off...so assumed the the rockers were "ok"... was just hoping to see what people noticed when their rockers failed... EDIT...dont anticipate valve damage as I still had 100 PSI on cylinder 4...but...we shll still check em out |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
If you find no obvious damage with the scope, I would strongly suggest doing a leakdown test on all four cylinders BEFORE you put the new rockers in. You should be able to buy/make up an adapter to connect an air line to the injector holes. Even just putting 100 psi of air in each cylinder should help to clarify. Listen at the exhaust pipe, intake and breather. An actual leakdown tester will allow you to compare the cylinders to each other, but if you hear much more hissing in one place, you have found your problem. If the roughly 136K miles this Jeep has run has been without a GDE tune, we now know that the rockers had to be toast, regardless of how frequently the oil may have been changed along the way. Sounds like you were about to take care of that, but were just a bit late. It is always hardest when you have most of the knowledge needed and still have things go south on you. However, sounds like you up to getting it squared away, even if it means taking the head or more apart. DOC |
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| Author: | Valve Stem [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
My suggestion to anyone who takes the valve cover off the replace the rockers... since you already went that far (and that much $$$) you should just go ahead and take the 18 bolts out, and remove the head, inspect it, and replace the gasket, and do the ARP Studs change over... For an extra $400 for gasket/Studs its huge improvement to the reliability for the engine |
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| Author: | toy_vw [ Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
cool...thanks guys...Ill update once things get sorted. Just surprised no one has chimed in whos suffered the same fate with their findings... DEFFINATLY not belt slip/ cam gear slip...if anything valve float at higher rpms...Do these VM's suffer from that? |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
toy_vw wrote: cool...thanks guys...Ill update once things get sorted. Just surprised no one has chimed in whos suffered the same fate with their findings... DEFFINATLY not belt slip/ cam gear slip...if anything valve float at higher rpms...Do these VM's suffer from that? Yes, so I have read. There is a reason that the top end is 4k rpm. Max torque is around 2k, IIRC. I replaced my TB and did the rockers and ARP studs at the same time, along with the WP, idlers and a bunch of other stuff. |
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| Author: | toy_vw [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
Well an update for those who are interested. When I removed the upper valve cover, i found the #4 intake rockers completely failed and off the valves sitting to the side...of 16 rockers 3 were good, 3 failed completely. The others were on their last legs. This explains why I had no compression on number 4. I made my own alignment tools and will take a picture of how you can do them from a 20mm m10X1.0 bolt, and a 0.250 roll pin at 2" length. truck is running much better then ever..idle is awesome, power is back... Cheers |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
Glad you got it up and running better than ever. Good valve operation= more power. |
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| Author: | Jay ne Ohio [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
I just went through the same deal, but it was the rockers on cyl #1. Before I installed the new rockers, I pushed down on each valve to make sure it was working freely. An exhaust valve on #1 was stuck. With some extra effort, it broke free. However, there was some carbon buildup that broke loose when I did this. I tried to turn the engine by hand and when piston #1 got near the top, it "encountered" this carbon and would not go all the way up. I had to remove the head and clean the carbon out as well as clean up the exhaust valves and seats on that cyl too. I'm glad to hear you didn't have to pull the head, but just wanted to warn others to check the valve travel and engine rotation before putting it all back together. It only takes a minute and could save a lot of time/damage. toy_vw wrote: Well an update for those who are interested.
When I removed the upper valve cover, i found the #4 intake rockers completely failed and off the valves sitting to the side...of 16 rockers 3 were good, 3 failed completely. The others were on their last legs. This explains why I had no compression on number 4. I made my own alignment tools and will take a picture of how you can do them from a 20mm m10X1.0 bolt, and a 0.250 roll pin at 2" length. truck is running much better then ever..idle is awesome, power is back... Cheers |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
Was the carbon buildup exclusively on the back side of the valve or, was it also on the face? Thanks, DOC |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
DOC4444 wrote: Was the carbon buildup exclusively on the back side of the valve or, was it also on the face? Thanks, DOC When the rockers break in one or two cylinders, the engine continues to run + you are running it trying to figure out what happened or whats wrong. This is when soot builds up under the valves that are still operating and will stick also causing low cylinder pressure. The soot will burn off after running for a wile after repairs are made. That i did....when the intake was still off i rotated each cylinder up till aprox 1/2 inch from TDC and dumped about a cup of Diesel fuel in the injector hole. I then used a piece of wood to press down on each valve, exposing and washing it with fuel. The fuel will then make its way down to the pan. Be sure to drain it out with the old oil. Good luck KJJET |
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| Author: | Jay ne Ohio [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
It was primarily on the bottom of the valve, but I also removed the two exhaust valves and cleaned the seat with a small wire wheel on my Dremel. I will post a picture to this message: DOC4444 wrote: Was the carbon buildup exclusively on the back side of the valve or, was it also on the face?
Thanks, DOC |
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| Author: | dirtmover [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
toy_vw wrote: I made my own alignment tools and will take a picture of how you can do them from a 20mm m10X1.0 bolt, and a 0.250 roll pin at 2" length. So you not going to tell us how? I gave up looking for long enough bolts and ended up turning a set from scratch. I'm guessing you bored out the middle of the bolt and inserted the pin. Wish I'd thought of that, I could have saved myself a bit of work  .
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| Author: | kjjet [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
dirtmover wrote: toy_vw wrote: I made my own alignment tools and will take a picture of how you can do them from a 20mm m10X1.0 bolt, and a 0.250 roll pin at 2" length. So you not going to tell us how? I gave up looking for long enough bolts and ended up turning a set from scratch. I'm guessing you bored out the middle of the bolt and inserted the pin. Wish I'd thought of that, I could have saved myself a bit of work .I purchased long bolts and machined down the tip to fit. Works great! |
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| Author: | toy_vw [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rocker damage Question |
Hey yes, sorry about that..just drilled out the bolt and inserted roll pin...easy peasy...much easier then grinding down the end of a long bolt. Make sure to get them dead center...took me a few to get it 100% |
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