Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.

mlosen · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:11 pm

I have a 2006 CRD Liberty.
I changed the timing belt at 98850 mi. decided to try and save some $ and went with the crown water pump.
3000 miles later pump failed. Wife made it home but when I pulled it into garage it stopped the motor at idle. Pump bearing gone.
I have replaced the pump with mopar part but now the CRD will not run. cranks and sputters.CEL P0102 and P1189
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I am sure of the timing, used all the pins and tripple checked before starting.
Wondering if the belt slipped and trashed some rockers at idle?
What is the easiest way to check?
Please help.
Thanks,
Matt

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:16 pm

Howdy Matt - I can't answer the question - I suspect Geordi can.

when the pump bearing died - did it seize? or just start leaking?

mlosen · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:17 pm

Siezed

mlosen · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Wish I hadn't changed the pump. The original was still in great shape.
Would have saved lots of time and $.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:22 pm

mlosen wrote:

Siezed

I would expect that it killed some or all rockers - although they're a designed break point and because of the volume - IDparts is getting at ~ $400/set now.... (he also stopped carrying the Crown water pumps)

mlosen · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:15 pm

I saw that he doesn't recomend the crown parts when I ordered my Serpentine belt tensioner last week.

naturist · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:41 pm

Ow! I'm so sorry to hear of this. I'd be threatening a lawsuit over something like this. This is beyond tolerating.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:34 pm

mlosen wrote:

I have a 2006 CRD Liberty.
I changed the timing belt at 98850 mi. decided to try and save some $ and went with the crown water pump.
3000 miles later pump failed. Wife made it home but when I pulled it into garage it stopped the motor at idle. Pump bearing gone.
I have replaced the pump with mopar part but now the CRD will not run. cranks and sputters.CEL P0102 and P1189
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I am sure of the timing, used all the pins and tripple checked before starting.
Wondering if the belt slipped and trashed some rockers at idle?
What is the easiest way to check?
Please help.
Thanks,
Matt

With all of the reports and information on these Crown pumps, why are people still using them? More importantly, why are they still being sold?! Every single one has had a problem! I think someone should go after Crown at this point. It has been several years, and these schitty pumps are still in distribution. I hate seeing people get burned on these parts.

Yes, if the pump seized, the timing belt is trash now, and yes, you have broken rockers. No need to even check your timing... prepare to do the job again, this time with rockers. Sorry!

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:02 pm

mlosen wrote:

Siezed

OUCH. Well Matt, as everyone has said... You are most likely looking at the entire timing job again, but this time it will be flavored with the fine wine of a rocker replacement.

There really isn't much point in trying to diagnose whether any of the rockers (or all of them) have broken. It doesn't matter, the top will have to come off anyway. Idparts.com can supply you with the rockers for about $400, and I would strongly advise a NEW belt and obviously a new Graff water pump. You don't need to spend the money for the "OEM" water pump, the Graff is actually better. That is the brand that VW uses for all their TDIs, and the pumps are fantastic. You could also try putting your old pump back in place, however there have been several members that have had pump problems in the 130k mile range. That part is up to you.

I see you are near the Twin Cities area... If it becomes too much to work on for you (I don't think this will be beyond you at all) then we can discuss flying me up there to assist. As it sounds however, you should be able to tackle this... But I understand your feeling that you aren't happy about the prospect.

--Jim

mlosen · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:22 pm

Thanks guys. I will be ordering rockers tonight.
I will try to post picks of the aftermath.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:44 pm

mlosen wrote:

Thanks guys. I will be ordering rockers tonight.
I will try to post picks of the aftermath.

You will need rockers, gaskets, probably the rollers/tensioner if you have not already done that, a timing belt and water pump. May as well do it right this time or you'll be doing this all over again. The time and expense is not worth the risk...

mlosen · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:05 am

Has anyone done a how to?
I have searched but no posts like the timing belt job.
Thanks again.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:31 am

Sir_Sam Writeup
http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html

Beesville writeup
http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html

there are more and I'll add if I find them - but that's what I had bookmarked.

Sir_sam Video
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60858

Rocker Arms
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=75479

ARP head studs
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=65524

by the way - did you ever go through the Noob guide - it had good links too
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

also as a general reference LOST search is ')(&**(%#' non optimal - use Google advance site:www.lostjeeps.com/forum

mlosen · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:11 am

Thanks for the help.
One more question.
Being as my engine was stopped by the siezed water pump. Could i have pinned the crank 180 degrees out?
There is some conflicting info on this in the many tech write ups.
I would think there would be only one crank aligning hole in the flexplate?
Thanks again,

Matt

Tom Plumb · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:40 am

Are you in Cottage grove oregon?
I would like to see it opened up when you get to it.
I just finished a tb and water pump on my 06 2 weeks ago.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:26 am

mlosen wrote:

Thanks for the help.
One more question.
Being as my engine was stopped by the siezed water pump. Could i have pinned the crank 180 degrees out?
There is some conflicting info on this in the many tech write ups.
I would think there would be only one crank aligning hole in the flexplate?
Thanks again,

Matt

Forget about the crank pin for right now. Your engine timing is irrelevant at the moment because there is a strong possibility that at least one of the rockers is broken. Since you will be taking the top off anyway and opening the injector holes, you can manually discover where 90 degrees ATDC is quite simply. Put a rod into the top of the cylinder through the injector hole, and rotate the engine manually. When the rod comes to its top position, then look at the crank pulley - The bolt holes will be forming a vertical and horizontal set of lines. "+" Turn the crank another 90 degrees clockwise, and when the holes line up vertical and horizontal again... Stripe a mark on the top of the pulley and begin work on everything else.

There are 2 holes in the flywheel, but there are actually many BIG holes that can also get in the way to confuse you. Forget about the flywheel and just use the rod method, since the cylinders will be available for this method anyway.

Auberon · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:28 am

Of course, they are excellent resources.
Also well documented by one of the blokes on AusJeepoffroad.
Kim Beveridge (I think) was the name of the contributor.
Lots of pictures were attached to his thread and it is also well written.
Good luck.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:58 am

geordi wrote:

Your engine timing is irrelevant at the moment because at least one of the rockers is broken.

Corrected. You are going to have to tear everything down. You can use the mark on the crank after removing the harmonic balancer. It is a line. It may be hard to see and require cleaning it a little. At least one of the write-ups mention this mark. I forget what position it needs to be in off the top of my head. Mine was not too hard to see when I did my timing belt/water pump back in August. Good luck.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:23 am

There are 4 bolt holes in the crankshaft hub and adjacent to one of them there is a little dimple or witness mark, should be easy to see and there is a picture in the FSMs. When in the proper position the 4 bolt holes should be at 12/3/6/9 o'clock and the one with the witness mark should be at 3 o'clock at which point the cam pins and the flywheel pin (alternative a 6mm or 1/4" long allen key) should slid right in. If they don't rotate the engine manually until dimple comes around again and try pins again.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:31 am

You don't need to rotate the engine twice just to find the crank mark (in THIS situation - since his timing is already broken) and when the cams are not connected / in time, then the crankshaft can be 90 ATDC very easily. If that mark exists on the crankshaft (some have had it, others have not) then by all means, use that. Turn as Papaindigo stated, so the factory mark is at the 3 o'clock spot.

HOWEVER - this is a potential reason to not do that: You don't know that the mark you are using *IS* from the factory. The rod method is foolproof.

Either way you get there is OK at this stage.

Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.

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