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Transmission Stalling
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78257		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bronco9588 [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Transmission Stalling
I know this is more of a transmission issue, and not a diesel specific problem, but I figured that you guys might be able to help diagnose. I have an '05 CRD.

I just recently moved to CT and the cold temperatures is making things really interesting. Anyways, If I drive around the town after a cold start the transmission doesn't like to disengage when braking. Sometimes the car will even stall. At idle the engine sounds like it is making the quiet but noticeable metalic pinging sound. When I place the transmission into neutral, idle becomes smooth and the pinging noise goes away. This makes me think that the sound is originating with the transmission.

I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I do have transmission problems. So I drove her 50 miles to the nearest AAMCO shop and I could not replicate the problem. I figured that the transmission heated up and and that the problem is related to high viscosity fluids.

Anyways, the torque converter is brand new with less than 5K miles on it. I have done no towing and haven't been flooring the engine. Transmission fluid was flushed. Filters have 25K miles on them, and they are not OEM.

Is this a bad front pump?
Author:  geordi [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
Add another quart of fluid first.

I don't care what the dipstick says, especially if YOU did not refill the transmission yourself. This vehicle has so many off-the-shelf parts that don't *quite* make it run properly. It also (if you didn't see them do it) requires ATF +4 fluids. Did they put that in? A normal transmission drain-and-fill on this tranny can require as much as 9 quarts to properly refill it.

When cold, the torque converter can drain back into the pan (Search on 'drainback' for threads - common problem) and I'm sure that cold weather makes this worse. Before leaving, shift to NEUTRAL and let the engine idle for at least 30 seconds or so. The transmission pump doesn't really refill the converter while in Park, but it does in Neutral - much quicker. If that solves the problem, then you have the classic drainback problem. If it doesn't, then try more fluid and see what changes. 1 quart extra isn't going to be enough to mess with the transmission much, but it may make it run better if it is low.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
I see several potential issues:
1. non-OEM or WIX filters
2. newish torque converter but you apparently did not change filters at the same time although I assume you added some fluid which I hope was ATF+4
3. transmission fluid was "flushed" which many do not recommend and has been known to dislodge crud into the circulating fluid.
4. tranny never works completely "right" when really cold and can take a while to get up to operating temp. At ambient mid-20sF down here mine doesn't warm up and quit feeling odd for 5 miles or so.
5. I won't offer an opinion on AAMCO transmission service.

My suggestion is find a good local shop, or DIY as it's not hard just messy (if you can park with nose up and allow to drain overnight), and do a good drain (no flush) and then refill with ATF+4 with new OEM or WIX filters (both of them). While in there make sure the plate on the side of the valve body is not loose. Might need to do the fluid/filters a couple of times if you did not use ATF+4.

Note that the dipstick is not wildly accurate and the tranny seems to like more fluid rather than less. IIRC a good drain results in needing like 7-8 qts for a refill.

What geordi says too.
Author:  bronco9588 [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
you recommend only buying wix or mopar filters?

Thanks to both of you guys. I will try all of these before having to consider pulling the tranny. I don't want to pay for something, but I would rather replace something now than have something really expensive in the future...
Author:  geordi [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
This is a comparatively tough transmission, you shouldn't have to pull it unless something catastrophic happens. (Yeah, I had something bad happen to my transmission too, but it was a freak failure caused by the torque converter)

You should be in good shape, dollars to donuts that your problem is related to either fluid, filters, or the drainback.

I don't have an opinion about machine flushes, but it is super important to get ALL the bad fluid and their flush-juice out when it is done. I changed my TDI from factory useless-juice to quality Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, and I did it just by changing the fluid 3 times in rapid succession, with about 1000 miles in between each change. Did the filter the first time and the third time. What came out after 40k miles on the Mobil 1 looked and smelled great, I probably didn't even need to change it. Like dark cranberry juice with a tinge of very dark in it.

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF +4 for the Jeep, yeah it is expensive, and yeah you will need a LOT of it to make the transmission full... If you leave it pointed uphill and draining overnight, expect to need at least 8 quarts to fill it. Possibly as many as 14, but I don't think that much will actually come out. When filling it back up, the way it drives is your best indication whether it is full or not. Don't go crazy, but like Papaindigo says - this transmission likes being a bit overfilled according to the dipstick.

It also wouldn't be the worst idea to install the little "transmission drain plug kit" that the parts stores have. Put it in the corner of the pan near the dipstick tube, there is space there. Makes future drains a lot less messy.
Author:  bronco9588 [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
Hey Guys,

Thanks for your help. Took the car to the hobby shop today. New fuel filter, brakes, drained the transmission, and changed the filters. I had a great success today! I did not spill 5 L of ATF+4 on the shop floor this time when removing the tranny pan. It was rather a clean operation. Anyways, the new filter works great and I think that the cheapest rockauto filter i put in it a while ago was the culprit. No more stalls, but running her cold tomorrow will be the ultimate test.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
Only 5 liters of trans fluid for the change? I hope you put more in than that, or you may be running it very low on fluid. One of the change cycles I did with mine, took 8 quarts before it ran happy again. Be aware that the dipstick bottoms out in the pan, and may not be the correct reading. Fill it up based on the feel of operation - if it is feeling strange or acting strange, try adding more fluid and see if the behavior changes / stops.
Author:  bronco9588 [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
I was implying that i did not spill oil over the shop floor since there is no drain plug..
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
To add my experience with this same stalling problem when first cranking cold and driving for a very short distance and letting off the accelerator petal; transmission or TC would shutter and then motor would stall out. Found out that if you were quick enough to place shifter into neutral, you could prevent the stalling. :roll:

How I fixed it: As Gordi and Pap both stated;
I changed all the filters using Mopar OEM parts. I also removed about a 1/2 inch off the bottom of the dipstick as it never seamed to want to go all the way into the tube properly. I refiled with AFF+4 and made sure the level was just above the full mark cold on the shortened dipstick. :wink:

And to date not a single shutter or stall has occurred! :BANANA:
I sincerely believe that correct oil level is the key?
Author:  dirtmover [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
This is very encouraging WWDiesel. I've been slow to engage for quite a while now but had my first stall experience last week. Time to replace the filters and fluid I think.
Author:  bronco9588 [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
WWdiesel... that is exactly what my issue was. I think we have found a solution. Do you think we did any permanent damage to the tranny?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission Stalling
bronco9588 wrote:
WWdiesel... that is exactly what my issue was. I think we have found a solution. Do you think we did any permanent damage to the tranny?

I sure HOPE NOT!!!! :wink:
I do plan on replacing the tranny front pump and TC (with a SunCoast) in the very near future anyway so I can hold the additional power with the Stage 1 reflash. :JEEPIN:
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