CRD vs. GASSER thinking of switching

Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Wondering the pros and cons of owning a crd over a gas kj. I have a gas kj but found a great deal on a crd and I am tempted to switch.

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HedsIc · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 1:57 pm

Pros: You get to post in the CRD section of the forums.

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thermorex · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 2:27 pm

Go for it! It's more expensive in maintenance, harder to fix by shops (not a common engine) but if you'll do the maintenance and work, it's worth. Does the crd have a gde tune or egr disabled? It would help if you'll post few details about the crd and the price.

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Top two reasons: fuel economy and torque.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 4:00 pm

Reasones, Fuel economy, HP, Torque, something to work on in your spare time; a very unique vehicle which has become a classic with a cult following! :ROTFL:

Love the smell of diesel exhaust in the morning! :goink:

flman · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 4:52 pm

You will almost double your fuel mileage with a GDE tune. I hope you know how to turn wrenches. Us die hard CRDers, do not mind the well documented problems.

You get a 5 speed Hemi rated transmission.

BTW is the V6 gasser bullet proof?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 9:42 pm

flman wrote:

You will almost double your fuel mileage with a GDE tune. I hope you know how to turn wrenches. Us die hard CRDers, do not mind the well documented problems.

You get a 5 speed Hemi rated transmission.

BTW is the V6 gasser bullet proof?

I have the same trans as you do but mine doesn't self destruct(TC) and as far as long term the 3.7 gasser is proving to be much more reliable in the long run.The cost difference from the few mpg's lost will never make up the cost difference in maintenance alone between the 3.7 and 2.8.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 10:56 pm

It's a diesel thing for me. I couldn't care less about a gasser Liberty. I'd rather own a gasser Toyota or Ford. But, to each his own.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed May 28, 2014 11:39 pm

Doing some simple math, based on 100,000 miles the crd is up for its timing belt change, about $400. If you divide 100,000 miles by 25 miles per gallon for the crd, you come up with 4,000 gallons of diesel needed. Times that by $4 a gallon and you've burned through $16,000 dollars.
For the gas Libby divide 100,000 by 17 mpg and you get 5,882.34 gallons of gas needed. I'll average the gas price at $3.50 a gallon, times the 5,882.34 and you get $20,588 worth of gas burned. That's $4,588 difference. Per 100,000 miles. Now the CRD's oil change are a little bit more expensive, but not much if you put good synthetic motor oil in the gas. Other than that costs are about the same. Brakes, tires, lights etc. I used a rough average for the mpg but I think its pretty close.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 12:24 am

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Doing some simple math, based on 100,000 miles the crd is up for its timing belt change, about $400. If you divide 100,000 miles by 25 miles per gallon for the crd, you come up with 4,000 gallons of diesel needed. Times that by $4 a gallon and you've burned through $16,000 dollars.
For the gas Libby divide 100,000 by 17 mpg and you get 5,882.34 gallons of gas needed. I'll average the gas price at $3.50 a gallon, times the 5,882.34 and you get $20,588 worth of gas burned. That's $4,588 difference. Per 100,000 miles. Now the CRD's oil change are a little bit more expensive, but not much if you put good synthetic motor oil in the gas. Other than that costs are about the same. Brakes, tires, lights etc. I used a rough average for the mpg but I think its pretty close.

Unless you do the timing belt yourself your looking at closer to $1600 for the timing belt,then a fuel head,lift pump,TC and pump,tunes to make it work correctly,some rockers,t-stat,and some hoses and the list goes on and on to just make it run.That's if your turbo,glow plugs,and head gasket don't crap out.

So your looking at $7500+ in parts alone just to make it work correctly for 100k before you even getting to the timing belt.Why a timing belt is even doing on a diesel I have no idea,worst idea ever.

Oh and most CRD's are only averaging 22-23mpg's on the highway while plenty of 3.7 KJ's are averaging 20 on the highway so your $4500 in fuel price difference is almost zero.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 8:19 am

Tj is correct 99.9%. As a regular person, that doesn't do the maintenance himself, crd will cost more, but the real problem is that most dealers and mechanics here in us don't have a clue how to work with this engine. So, if you don't do your own maintenance, the best alternative for a crd is have Geordi do timing belt and other related work that requires special tools/knowledge. Also, there are some must do's for the crd, such as a gde tune, new torque converter (if it is still stock), egr block (weeks101 kit). Then, the thermostat is 150+ and it only lasts 50-60k before it gets stuck on usually semi-open.

Regarding fuel mileage, you'll still save more on the long run, when a crd averages 22-23 mpg, a 3.7 will average no better than 17. It all depends on drive style. There are people getting 35mpg with crd, but driving very conservative and up to 60 mph. I one can't drive like that and average a city-highway mix of 25, but I got 30 mpg driving 70 mph on a long trip.

Definitely get a crd if: you like the diesel torque, tow a bit every now and then, want a bit better mpg from a jeep, have a reliable mechanic to work at the engine (yourself or Geordi)

A 3.7 jeep is a vehicle you just get and forget about, just do the regular maintenance and almost every shop will be able to handle your engine issues. A crd needs a mechanic that knows what is doing. Plus, you can get a 3.7 engine from almost any junkyard, if you'll need to. Way harder to find a crd engine.

Parts-wise, other than thermostat, there is not such a big difference imo. Diesels in general are a bit higher maintenance than gassers (fuel pressure pump, injectors are just few parts that are 3-4 times more than a jeep gasser equivalent, but they usually last way more) at the end, it's a matter of what you want and what makes you want to drive a specific car. In my case, the crd brings a smile on my face every single time I drive it, it's not an easy to maintain engine, compared to other gassers, but I wouldn't even think trading it for a gas car.

Oh, and regarding timing belt, this isn't really an issue, there are plenty engines with timing belt, including diesels (vw/Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Mitsubishi) and if timing belt is replaced per manufacturer specs, no issues at all. Crd timing belt schedule should have been 60k, like European model, not 100k, which unless those are mostly highway miles, is asking for troubles.

P. S. Post some details about the crd you plan buying, like mileage, price, maintenance done, you will get way better feedback this way.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 8:21 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Why a timing belt is even doing on a diesel I have no idea,worst idea ever.

If you search you'll find that belts appear to have a number of compelling immediate and lifetime advantages but admittedly a lot of this information is coming from the industry so you could cry foul.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 8:36 am

Seems like most are getting 26-27 mpg. Guess I'm a lucky one, I was getting 32-34 highway with no tune, stock converter, and gen 1 fuel head. You dont need a new fuel head with the lift pump. And a GDE Eco tune will still keep the factory tc alive. I guess the savings are there if you do the work yourself, but that's always been true.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 10:07 am

dirtmover wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Why a timing belt is even doing on a diesel I have no idea,worst idea ever.

If you search you'll find that belts appear to have a number of compelling immediate and lifetime advantages but admittedly a lot of this information is coming from the industry so you could cry foul.

It was a novel idea for small 4 banger gas engines,cheaper to make and quieter then a chain.In the last few years though almost all the companies are going back to chain drive.There are very few '14 model year vehicles sold here in the US with belts,the car buyer spoke and the industry listened since almost all dealers got stuck doing belt jobs before they could re-sell a vehicle.

I went a few months at work without one belt job,everyone said there trading it in when they found out that there was a $1000 maintenance item.

One65 · **Joined:** Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:06 pm **Posts:** 6

I currently own one of each. A CRD for me and 3.7 for my daughter. Until recently I owned a 3.7 as well. Made 185,000 trouble-free KM in my 3.7 and decided to try the CRD. I am really enjoying the better fuel economy of the CRD, but frustrated at the work I had/will have to do to get there (thank goodness for this forum and the NOOB guide). I make 85 - 100 KM per day with a mixture of city and highway driving. Commuting with the ECOtune I am now getting 30-31mpg (imperial, not US), where I was getting 22-24 mpg with the 3.7. On the open highway I am now getting 37-38 mpg where I was getting 27-28 with the 3.7. I used to get 20 mpg pulling a small snowmobile trailer, and now am over 30mpg for sure. Same roads, same driving style... apples to apples comparison.

I have to admit that the CRD has a way of getting under your skin. The torque is addicting, and I really like driving it a bit more than the 3.7. If I don't get stung with a head gasket issue, broken torque converter, or blown turbo, I have made the right decision. If any of the above goes south - I have lost money over buying another 3.7. Time will tell.

You MUST be completely comfortable doing your own work in order to own one of these. Paying a shop to do the work will put you WAAAY further behind financially than owning a 3.7.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 4:33 pm

Two thoughts!!
You can make your own fuel for the CRD and your fuel costs go way down; impossible on a gasser!
Hang a 5,000 pound trailer behind a CRD and a gasser and then compare fuel mileage between the two. It will open your eyes! I know, I have towed with both type engines before I bought a Cummins. Gasser was luckly to get 5 mpg towing, Cummins gets 4 times that, or ~20 mpg towing....
to each his own, whatever makes you happy!!! :mrgreen:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 4:45 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Two thoughts!!
You can make your own fuel for the CRD and your fuel costs go way down; impossible on a gasser!
Hang a 5,000 pound trailer behind a CRD and a gasser and then compare fuel mileage between the two. It will open your eyes! I know, I have towed with both type engines before I bought a Cummins. Gasser was luckly to get 5 mpg towing, Cummins gets 4 times that, or ~20 mpg towing....
to each his own, whatever makes you happy!!! :mrgreen:

Towed 5k with my KJ from Ft Lewis WA to FT Carson CO,so not flat,and the trailer was a 6x10 enclosed.Had 4.10's,32" tires,and yes the speedo was corrected,100% stock engine and trans and no HD cooling.Got 17mpg's at 65mph(OD locked out).

Before I was lifted I towed 300lbs from South Dakota to FT Lewis WA,5x8 enclosed trailer, I averaged 22mpg's doing 65mph.Stock gears(3.73's),stock engine/trans,and 225/75R16 load range E MT/R's.

Far cry from 5mpg's

flman · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2014 4:57 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Doing some simple math, based on 100,000 miles the crd is up for its timing belt change, about $400. If you divide 100,000 miles by 25 miles per gallon for the crd, you come up with 4,000 gallons of diesel needed. Times that by $4 a gallon and you've burned through $16,000 dollars.
For the gas Libby divide 100,000 by 17 mpg and you get 5,882.34 gallons of gas needed. I'll average the gas price at $3.50 a gallon, times the 5,882.34 and you get $20,588 worth of gas burned. That's $4,588 difference. Per 100,000 miles. Now the CRD's oil change are a little bit more expensive, but not much if you put good synthetic motor oil in the gas. Other than that costs are about the same. Brakes, tires, lights etc. I used a rough average for the mpg but I think its pretty close.

Unless you do the timing belt yourself your looking at closer to $1600 for the timing belt,then a fuel head,lift pump,TC and pump,tunes to make it work correctly,some rockers,t-stat,and some hoses and the list goes on and on to just make it run.That's if your turbo,glow plugs,and head gasket don't crap out.

So your looking at $7500+ in parts alone just to make it work correctly for 100k before you even getting to the timing belt.Why a timing belt is even doing on a diesel I have no idea,worst idea ever.

Oh and most CRD's are only averaging 22-23mpg's on the highway while plenty of 3.7 KJ's are averaging 20 on the highway so your $4500 in fuel price difference is almost zero.

LOL, did you buy your KJ off the lot just as pictured in your AV? :ROTFL:

You have more money into that, than I have in both of my CRDs.

The CRD is an enthusiast vehicle, we do not care if we have to do some repairs, I just love the torque.

Would you have the same type of vehicle if you had no mechanical abilities? I do not think so, and I doubt people with no mechanical ability even wanted a CRD. I know I could not wait to get one to replace my VW TDI once I heard about it. I had to buy a brand new one on Ebay because they were not available in NY state.

So you are preaching to the choir and we do not care.

Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Good info the crd I found had almost 100k on it so I can se why he may have had it up for sale. I am going to be doing some more research and try and find a good diesel mechanic in my town before I make a decision.

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

thermorex wrote:

Go for it! It's more expensive in maintenance, harder to fix by shops (not a common engine) but if you'll do the maintenance and work, it's worth. Does the crd have a gde tune or egr disabled? It would help if you'll post few details about the crd and the price.

It had a GDe tune and was just under 100k. Had arb, ome lift, and was selling for 8500 bucks. Makes me think maintenance may have been due.

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CRD vs. GASSER thinking of switching

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