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Big engine problems.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79796		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  immadmacs [ Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Big engine problems.
$4500.00 in repairs so far, and it still doesn't run right. It started just driving along at about 40 mph, when the engine started knocking and smoking. Luckily I was almost home. I had it towed to what I thought was a qualified shop. One cylinder had lost compression. The valves were frozen and freed up after soaking in cleaning solution. They replaced 2 broken rockers, 2 lifters, drained the fuel, replaced the glow plugs and fuel filter. During a test drive, it started missing at 28 miles. They are now taking off the head to see if more of the rockers are bad. They suspected a bad injector, but can't verify it. I'm really frustrated with the CRD engine. 108,0000 miles and I've had to replace turbo hoses, egr, timing belt (expected), water pump, 2 window brackets, glow plugs, and now this. 7-8k in added repairs and I still need to replace shocks, struts, springs and bushings. This was the first new car I ever bought and thought it would last. I'm so disappointed.
Author:  dntlkbak [ Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Im with you, I originally purchased this vehicle for the diesel engine (and paid alot of extra for it), figuring I could get many miles out of it as I have owned other diesels of different brands with good luck, however this VM engine appears to be a failure IMO, some folks get 200k out of them but it still entails alot of replacing of parts while others like me dont even get to 100K and the engines fail (cracked block on mine) and iam meticulous with PM maintenance. It sounds good, decent mileage, and power for its size but outside that I think it is junk.
Author:  Dennis MacGyver [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
I think, as with any engine, if you are continuously pushing it hard, accelerating fast, poorly maintaining and not watching fluid levels, things are not going to last.

Most engines have their weaknesses. Diesels do well with slow acceleration and shifting at rather low (<2500rpm) speeds. To hell with those rice rockets climbing up your booty after every stop light.

This engine can be a race horse, if you choose, and as such you will have to put her out to pasture sooner rather than later if you ride her hard and put her away wet.

One very friendly thing you can do for this engine is to remove the EGR gasses from the intake. Another is to insure that things are cooled down after a hard ride to allow the turbo to cool off 1st before you shut 'er down.
Author:  immadmacs [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Even if you do perform regular maintenance, watch fluid levels, and cool down the turbo, this engine fails. My Jeep is proof of that.
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
immadmacs wrote:
$4500.00 in repairs so far, and it still doesn't run right. It started just driving along at about 40 mph, when the engine started knocking and smoking. Luckily I was almost home. I had it towed to what I thought was a qualified shop (Skeeter's Auto Repair in Cypress). One cylinder had lost compression. The valves were frozen and freed up after soaking in cleaning solution. They replaced 2 broken rockers, 2 lifters, drained the fuel, replaced the glow plugs and fuel filter. During a test drive, it started missing at 28 miles. They are now taking off the head to see if more of the rockers are bad. They suspected a bad injector, but can't verify it. I'm really frustrated with the CRD engine. 108,0000 miles and I've had to replace turbo hoses, egr, timing belt (expected), water pump, 2 window brackets, glow plugs, and now this. 7-8k in added repairs and I still need to replace shocks, struts, springs and bushings. This was the first new car I ever bought and thought it would last. I'm so disappointed.


They probably should have done all 16 rockers.
What cylinder had low compression? Did they check compression after replacing the rockers?
What did the injectors look like when they removed them before? Did they put them back in in the
correct order?

Turbo hoses are a known failure point. Need to keep oil out of them by doing the EHM or Provent mod.
EGR is known to fail often. Need to remove it, block it, or something.
Its normal to replace the water pump with timing belt.

Springs and bushings? You must be doing a lot of off-roading.
Author:  Hexus [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
No probably to it, if they were exposed to EGR gases (I assume they still are being exposed to them to after reading this) then they were compromised. Obviously more than 1 broke, and all of them should have been changed when they were in there the first time.

Replace Turbo Hoses - There WAS an updated hose, but I think most of us went with Aftermarket. - Everyone had to do this.

EGR - Again, crap system, most of us chose a tune from GDE or the SEGR modification. - Everyone should do either one of these.

Timing Belt - Standard Preventative Maintenance.

Water Pump - Standard Preventative Maintenance.

Window Brackets - Known failure point - Most get the Steigers and are done with it.

Glow Plugs - Standard Failure item ~100,000 miles - Standard Preventative Maintenance IMHO at this point

I feel your pain if you aren't mechanically minded and had to actually pay someone else to do this work, I've done it for many myself. I learned on my own.



You made the statement that you expected it to last. How many miles does it have on it? Probably around 100,000, it has lasted. Latest model it could be is 2006, which makes it 8-9 model years old?

Shocks/Struts/Springs/Bushings are all standard maintenance items at this mileage too.

Welcome to adulthood.
Author:  immadmacs [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Well now it flattened the cams, they are replacing all 16 lifters/rocker arms. What's another grand? Sure some of the maintenance is regular, but just because an issue is normal for this vehicle, doesn't make it acceptable. A VW TDI or Ford diesel owner would not be happy if the recommended solution was to bypass engine components as built by the manufacturer. I got more out of my 71 Volvo, 73 VW square back ( I rebuilt the engine), 51Chevy PU ( I put a tranny from a 71chevy PU on it with a Hurst shifter and later put an engine from a caprice in it). I've spent many nights rebuilding carbs etc. At the kitchen table. This ain't my first rodeo. But I don't have the luxury of time that I had when I was younger. I think you assume too much Hexus.
Author:  geordi [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Not ONE of the engines you just mentioned has an EGR system on it. Go ahead, find one in that list. Just because it is bolted to the engine by the factory, doesn't make it good.

"lifters flattened the cams" Uhm, what exactly are you trying to say here? The lifters cannot do anything to the cams, these are hydraulic lifters that exist to take up the valve lash so that there is no need to adjust the valves. The rockers and lifters should have all been replaced at the same time, and are sold as a set. If your "shop" is doing the work with dealer parts, as I am guessing based on your "so whats another thousand" comment... You really should be more of the mechanical mind that you claim by saying you have rebuilt carbs.

Dealer parts are overpriced and NOT worth the extra money. A FULL SET of genuine VM rockers can be had for $340 from IDparts.com.
You also should read on the forums of VW diesels and Ford diesels. Bypassing the EGR system is a frequent topic on BOTH communities. You handed off your unique and expensive Italian Diesel to a shop that I GUARANTEE has never seen more than 3 of, if they have ever seen even one before. This may not be your first rodeo... But it fer DAMNNED SURE is theirs.

Do they even know how to set the timing properly? Do they know how to line up the fuel pump and properly pin the camshafts BEFORE removing or setting the cam pulley torque? Do they know that the pulleys CANNOT BE TORQUED with just the pins? Do they know the proper torque value for the camshaft pulleys and the timing belt tensioner?

These are CRITICAL questions, and if the rest of the rockers weren't broken before... but now they are... It is a VERY safe bet that they screwed up the timing job when reassembling the engine, and now are trying to blame something else, so that YOU are dumb enough to pay them for the parts that THEY BROKE from using the incorrect data from Alldata (if they used anything at all) and broke your motor.
Author:  immadmacs [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Have you read your own signature?
“Not ONE of the engines you just mentioned has an EGR system on it. You also should read on the forums of VW diesels and Ford diesels. Bypassing the EGR system is a frequent topic on BOTH communities.”
So which is it? I'm confused.
"Just because it is bolted to the engine by the factory, doesn't make it good."
My point exactly!
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
From an old mechanic:
Read and study this forum, it will guide as to how to make the CRD motor survive till old age.
First and foremost, replace the camshaft belt and water pump every 100k.
Get that oil out of the turbo intake, EHM mod, Provent mod, or other; just get it out!
Disable the EGR puking filth into the intake; block, cap, remove, reprogram OBC; by whatever means possible.
Get a Weeks elbow kit and get rid of the FCV, all EGR plumbing, extra water lines, etc...
Most important:
Re-flash the OBC to change how the engine controls manage everything with all the EM crap removed; GDE, Yeti, or SEGR modification to make it perform efficiently without all the choking and engine killing junk.
This is basically a good little diesel motor that was used all over the world in boats, cars, trucks, taxis, etc...
The government basically choked and killed this motors longevity here in the US with all the stupid crap it required the automakers to add on to it.....
:2cents:
Author:  immadmacs [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
wwdiesel, I completely agree. This would be a good diesel if they hadn't messed it up with the emissions system. If it lasts, after I get this fixed I will be getting a GDE (or other) tune as I was planning.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
The combustion and egr on this engine tend to produce metric tons of soot, which ends up in the oil. The 0W-40 is not great at keeping the soot in suspension and the soot is abrasive to the valve train. Over time this wears the support pin on the rocker arms and lead to a loos roller bearing and subsequent grinding into the cams. A good tune will keep your oil much cleaner and prevent those issues in the future. Hopefully you can get it all fixed and running well again.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
immadmacs wrote:
wwdiesel, I completely agree. This would be a good diesel if they hadn't messed it up with the emissions system. If it lasts, after I get this fixed I will be getting a GDE (or other) tune as I was planning.

My point exactly Sir! Get rid of all the EM crap that causes problems and that has nothing to do with making the engine actually run and you will see a world of difference in many aspects of its operation!

Ask me how I know this; many on this forum including myself have gutted the unnecessary culprits so we know what benefits it can provide... :BANANA: :pepper:
This is a great little Italian diesel motor and you are blessed if you happen to own one! Only drawback; you must be willing to learn how to, and mechanically inclined enough to modify and maintain your engine as no one else can... :ALONE:
Author:  diesel_guy86 [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
I changed all the rockers, timing belt job, ARP studs etc, ditched the vnt turbo and got rid of all the egr and got almost 43mpg on my last trip in a 4x4 vehicle hauling the family. These are good motors, the factory just didn't get it right the first time, ask any ford 6.0 owner.
Author:  Dennis MacGyver [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
diesel_guy86 wrote:
...., ditched the vnt turbo and got ....


Tell us about your replacement turbo, brand, type, part number, etc.
Was it a straight bolt on to existing hardware ?

Pictures ?
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big engine problems.
Dennis: This is his thread. Get ready for some lunacy.

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