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Stuck injectors
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81466		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  tomasnc [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Stuck injectors
I'm in the process of tearing the down for new rocker arms.
I've been reading up on the stuck injectors. Out of the four only one came out easily.
The o ring failing causes a heck of a large amount of soot build up.
I made a slide hammer to pull the front injectors. I working on another device to pull the rear most injector.
The Miller 9075 puller is well worth the coin. Having one would make this job a breeze. I could not imagine doing this repair w/o a puller.
The crud inside the bore is a mess. I'll be using geordi suggested shot patches clean them up.
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For the puller I used some cheap Harbor Freight crows feet wrenches. 13mm and for the slide I used small 3" round.
The little "t" puller was used to pull the rear most injector. I used a forklift with a 7ft fork to hang over the engine. I then used a 4" piece of channel notched to accept the t puller. The channel was used as a lever with a bar clamp to pull the injector.

There was a guy, that posted last year IIRC, that was having a heck of a time getting that same injector out. I know first-hand his frustration. :furious:

Tom
Author:  flman [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
They sure are cruddy, make sure you put some anti-seize on them, and ARP studs if you haven't already.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Mine were cruddy and a pain to pull also.
I managed to used some open ended wrenches to leverage them out.
Author:  tomasnc [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
flman wrote:
They sure are cruddy, make sure you put some anti-seize on them, and ARP studs if you haven't already.


flman, I am a HUGE believer in anit-seize compound. I've worked around machinery all my and it's standard procedure in my shop to re-assemble using Permatex anti-seize.

What has me puzzled is that one injector was perfect that other three had been leaking for a long time.

The ARP's are on order too.

Thanks,

Tom
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
It looks like the copper washer failed on that injector letting blow by past. I did not see the washer in the picture above. Did it stick to the head?
Author:  tomasnc [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
It looks like the copper washer failed on that injector letting blow by past. I did not see the washer in the picture above. Did it stick to the head?


I got stopped on the tear down... I'll look? I did notice the injectors had been numbered with an paint pencil I, II, III.
Is this standard procedure?

I assure this will not happen on my build.

Thanks,

Tom
Author:  geordi [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
A silver sharpie (paint pen) is my standard trick to number the injectors, but I don't use roman numerals. I do however put the number in at least 4 different places on the top of the injector... Diesel fuel washes away sharpie paint.

Just wiggling the injector back and forth while lifting (crows foot wrenches as mentioned do help a lot) is all I ever use to get the injectors out. It isn't the failure of the O-ring in most cases, that is really only there to keep the debris "somewhat" out of the bore, as it comes from above. Leaves and other matter get in there from the hood seal (which doesn't) and decay right on top of the engine, then there is general soot flying around or the lovely source of filth that is the CCV and its not-clamped-on hose that provides oily air... Over the miles, it builds up into the sludge that you see. That is completely normal from what I've seen on these engines, it may not have been leaking at the crush washer (which WOULD be making puffing sounds if it was) and you are simply fighting the force of that crud.

Keep at it. Also, let me tell you about the factory tool. I've used it, and it takes longer to assemble and disassemble it on each injector, than it does to just pull them manually! Maybe start drowning that last injector in brake cleaner as a lubricant? You will need to use brake cleaner in the bores anyway to clear them up with the shotgun cleaner kit. Good luck with it.
Author:  weeks101 [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
FYI we have the Miller 9075 available to rent for anyone who might find themselves in this situation.
Author:  tomasnc [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Jim, I'll post the puller I built in the AM. Only one of the four came out easily. I'm guessing the copper crush washers failed. The non-leaking injector had a tan o-ring while the fouled injectors were black.
Author:  flman [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
tomasnc wrote:
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
It looks like the copper washer failed on that injector letting blow by past. I did not see the washer in the picture above. Did it stick to the head?


I got stopped on the tear down... I'll look? I did notice the injectors had been numbered with an paint pencil I, II, III.
Is this standard procedure?

I assure this will not happen on my build.

Thanks,

Tom


Sounds like they have been pulled before, maybe they reused the washers and O rings? I never saw any marking on the ones I pulled, at the factory they are just put in and that is it, I know with the newer Sprinters you need to program each injector to its location, not sure about the CRD, so I use the sharpie as well. Also I label the wires with blue painters tape and a sharpie as the stickers fall off.
Author:  tomasnc [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Flman,

I am in agreement on their having been pulled before.

On the marking of connections, etc. I'm using the Dollar Tree band-aid method :)
I haven't had chance to get back on this engine this week but I would have thought the copper crush washer would be easy to see.

Thanks,

Tom
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
The washer can get pretty hard to see if it's really dirty but IIRC they have "teeth" that help them stick to the injector(s) on install and removal so look closely at the injector base; if not there they are stuck in the bore unless some blithering idiot installed without the crush washers.
Author:  tomasnc [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
I dug around this afternoon and found nothing !!!.
I bought a pick set at HF. Going to have my shop guy clean those holes out. Geordi mentioned brake cleaner.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
If the copper washer is truly not stuck to the bottom of the injector or in the bottom of the bore, I'm amazed that the thing would even run without sounding like a puffing steam engine!

They really should be on the injector, but if need be, you can try the narrow copper brush from the shotgun cleaning kit - its about 3/8" in diameter on the outside of the bristles, and you just stuff it into the center of the injector bore. If the washer is in there, it will easily jam in the bristles and you can pull it right out.

Brake cleaner is your friend on cleaning the bores of all that crap, you want the seat at the bottom to be extra-shiny for the new washers to seal against.
Expect the engine to sound like crap and smoke like a train for the first few seconds to a minute or so when you first start it up, as all that crap that washes into the top of the piston is burnt off. It won't hurt anything as it is usually just oily goop and brake cleaner that somehow didn't evaporate. (won't be much) and you will see the large bore mop looking AWFUL after you drown it in BC and clean the walls of each bore.
Author:  tomasnc [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Thanks Jim :)
Author:  tomasnc [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
All four washers are out. The only clean injector had the washer inplace on the tip.
The three badly fouled injectors had the washer in the bottom of the head and the o-ring was blown too.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Hmm. Makes me wonder if they were reused, or not the proper copper washer in the first place. They should jam quite tightly on the injector nose and not just fall off into the bore.

The O-rings don't really bother me much - Black or red, they are just a dust / debris / balancing seal, and not a critical component. All the important work is done by the crows foot clamp and the copper crush washer.
Author:  tomasnc [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Jim,

The one properly sealed injector had a washer that has four tits at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock. The points, if you will, kept the washer in place.
I am guessing the this injectors have been out? I will say that wiring appeared to be "factory" the electrical tape was nice and neat, etc.

Going to open the rest up tomorrow.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
If the other 3 washers lack those "tits" then they are not the correct washers which would explain both the leaks and removal problem. As Jim notes new stock washers go on tight.
The other Jim
Author:  tomasnc [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck injectors
Jim,

We agree :)

Who knows what has happened to this 'ole engine :roll:

Tom
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