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Timing Belt Alignment Issues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81578		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Brasher [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Hi guys, I just bought an '05 Liberty CRD last weekend with 99k (March 2005 build date). I'm in the middle of the timing belt replacement, but I've run into an issue. When I have the intake, exhaust, and crank "pin" (drill bit) installed by hand (although the drill bit is a tight fit), the Miller cam removal tool doesn't align correctly. The teeth of the tool align with the teeth of the gear instead of the valley. Also, despite turning over the engine by hand over 20 times, the injector pump never aligns at 90* ATDC. There is no indication that someone has been here before. The belt is the original Goodyear and there are no marks, wear on bolts, etc. What should I do?
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Sounds like you are trying to change the belt without changing the water pump. If so, this is a REALLY bad idea. The OEM water pump is unlikely to last 200K. When it fails, the valves hit the pistons. Should also change the thermostat while you have better access.

My injection pump also did not line up as the instructions called for. I put it back together as it had been, but it did not run well. Reset pump to spec and it ran great.

DOC
Author:  Mike92104 [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
I wouldn't worry too much about how it is now. Just put it back together correctly with the fuel pump on it's timing mark.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Ok... This is why I don't like the factory clamp, and why I use a breaking bar instead to counter my own force when changing the timing belt.

Sounds like someone was in there at some point. but start here: Forget the crank pin. Pull it out. If you have the two camshaft pins in place (a little loose pin is OK to allow you SOME adjustment here, but the proper pins would be better) then you can just bump the crankshaft a hair to get the clamp to line up with the valleys.

Crack the nuts, and when they are loose, bump the crankshaft back so the bolt holes are perfectly vertical and horizontal. The fuel pump lines up with the timing mark just under the bolt at the 8 o'clock position. It only matches up with its own timing mark every third rotation, so you would need to rotate the engine SIX TIMES to get the cams, crank, and the fuel pump to all return to their timing marks. Two revolutions matches the crank and the cams back to 90ATDC.
Author:  taroo [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Brasher wrote:
Hi guys, I just bought an '05 Liberty CRD last weekend with 99k (March 2005 build date). I'm in the middle of the timing belt replacement, but I've run into an issue. When I have the intake, exhaust, and crank "pin" (drill bit) installed by hand (although the drill bit is a tight fit), the Miller cam removal tool doesn't align correctly. The teeth of the tool align with the teeth of the gear instead of the valley. Also, despite turning over the engine by hand over 20 times, the injector pump never aligns at 90* ATDC. There is no indication that someone has been here before. The belt is the original Goodyear and there are no marks, wear on bolts, etc. What should I do?


Install your E/I pins. Use a sprocket buster like this one Image to remove the E/I cam bolts keeping any strain off your E/I pins. When reinstalling, set crank set at 90 Degrees ATDC. Align fuel pump witness mark to mark on engine as Geordi said, pins were already in E/I cams, install belt, tension belt so pointer is in the center of the tensioner window, remove E/I pins, rotate by hand two revs, retension, done.
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Author:  Brasher [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Thanks for the help guys. It's good to know that my "issues" aren't unheard of. By "timing belt replacement" I mean "timing belt job", so water pump, thermostat, rollers, the whole shebang. Since all three points are aligned right now, I'll reset the pump to match. I managed to wiggle the sprockets enough to get teeth somewhat into the valley. I then placed a couple of hex keys to fill the gaps and tightened the clamp against those. Hope it works.
Author:  Brasher [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Yep, someone has been here before. There are two "dirty spots" on the cam gears. That would explain why the injector pump was out of time. They may have replaced the belt, but not anything else. The idler pulley/sheave bearings are worn out.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
Shows that they didn't do the job properly OR completely - those idlers should have been replaced long ago.

When tensioning the new belt, DO NOT HAVE THE CLAMP IN PLACE. You want the cam pulleys in place and just a hair loose, so they can adjust to the belt while the cams themselves are pinned in the proper place.

When you set the tension on the belt the first time, set it with the "tower" just past clockwise of the spring rod to allow for relaxing when it takes up the slack. THEN put the clamp in place, and tighten the cam bolts to 80 ft-lb and remove the clamp. Now you can rotate the engine 2 times to let the tensioner pull up the slack. If it needs to be readjusted, just barely loosen the tensioner bolt while holding with the tool, and rotate it tighter. Then lock it down again, 28 lb-ft.
Author:  olypopper [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
"When tensioning the new belt, DO NOT HAVE THE CLAMP IN PLACE. You want the cam pulleys in place and just a hair loose, so they can adjust to the belt while the cams themselves are pinned in the proper place."

This is excellent information!
Author:  geordi [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Alignment Issues
That is basic information and the reason why the cams do not have keys, so that the cams can be properly positioned, but be infinitely adjustable to the needs of the belt.

You don't get any of my super-secret tricks unless you'd like me to perform the best belt service you've ever seen... ;) Can't give away all the magic now. :mrgreen:
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Timing Belt Alignment Issues
geordi wrote:
That is basic information and the reason why the cams do not have keys, so that the cams can be properly positioned, but be infinitely adjustable to the needs of the belt.

You don't get any of my super-secret tricks unless you'd like me to perform the best belt service you've ever seen... ;) Can't give away all the magic now. :mrgreen:


What else can that be Geordi, your service comes with 2 strippers, lol? Joke aside, I have to admit that the info is very good and I don't think there are others that worked on this engine as much as Geordi. But best advertisement is to go get one now, and drive it. 3 is the magic number! Especially that new jeeps, wrangler included, will come with the v6 diesel (no 4 cyl DSL option) so apparently this is the only newer jeep with 4 cyl diesel...
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