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ARP torquing question
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81936		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mountainman [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  ARP torquing question
So, I'm torque away on the ARP's, and two of the nuts seem determined to bounce back a good 20-30 degrees. I repeated the torque on these stubborn ones and they slowing got better, but it seems the nut is sticking on the stud (I lubed them well with the ARP lube), and I feel the stud winding up like a band, and then releasing this added torque, settling back where I started. This was in the 100+ ft/lb range. Might it have something to do with a ridge left by the stud, or maybe it's the lube on the bottom of the washer allowing it to slip back?

Anyone else experience this rubber band symptom while torquing ARPs?

I was thinking, could they be bottomed out, but I don't think with the stud sticking a couple mils out of the nut that that's possible... :dizzy:
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
pm or email geordi as he has installed ARP studs several times.
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
That is very strange and should not be happening.
I have never experienced anything like that. Not with studs and not with bolts.
Lube should be on the threads and on the surface between nut and washer.
I would un torque all the nuts and remove/inspect the nuts and studs that are giving you problems.
Are you sure it's the nuts unwinding and not you wrench flexing?
Author:  olypopper [ Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
I just installed studs in my block today also......had issues with getting the head on! I'll be watching closely as I torque the head down later.........please keep us posted.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
olypopper wrote:
I just installed studs in my block today also......had issues with getting the head on!


Yup.
You pretty much have to set the head on the block, THEN thread in the studs.
When I did mine, I threaded in the studs then tried to set the head on the block. Immediately the head got bound up trying to slide past the studs.
Then I remembered that I had the exact same problem when assembling a race motor many years ago.
This is why ARP studs have a hex hole in the top so you can use a allen wrench to thread them in after setting the head on the block.
Author:  flman [ Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
Did you lube everything, this includes all threads, bottom of the nut, and both sides of the washers?
Author:  Mountainman [ Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
Sorry for the late response, been in the mountains for a couple of days.

Anyhow, the whole nut and stud winds like a spring, and then releases.

I did lube all surfaces, but it feels like the stud is binding in the block, and it's obvious that it's actually twisting the stud, and then unwinding. I guess the holes must be too dirty. I guess I'll clean on the two problem ones a bit, but I do wonder how much the 10-20 degrees that it's sliping back is in ft/lbs? I'm not too worried if it's 10-15 lbs. :5SHOTS:
Author:  Mike92104 [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
Tell us more about how you installed the studs. Did you insrt them into the block first, and then install the washer and nut? Did you set the top of the stud flush with the but before torquing?
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
Yup, just like you described. I imagine that's why they say to chase the threads prior to install? If I wasn't so paranoid about this kind of thing, I probably wouldn't have noticed. When I retorque some of studs that seemed normal, the nut turns slightly and rebounds back to the original spot. I guess that's just the amount of twist the studs are taking. I'm going to pull those two crazy ones and see if some cleaning will help, but I don't think I have the right tools to run a tap all the way down. hmm

Thanks for the replies! :JEEPIN:
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
After sitting a few days, most of the studs took a little more torque. Also, the trouble two, after a few retorques are only bouncing back a couple of degrees. I'm calling it 10x better than OEM. I guess time will tell.
Maybe if you have a tiny leak, and you're just doing 1 for 1 with no gasket, you might let them set a few days and get them torqued a bit tighter after everything settles :5SHOTS:
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
Mountainman wrote:
Yup, just like you described. I imagine that's why they say to chase the threads prior to install? If I wasn't so paranoid about this kind of thing, I probably wouldn't have noticed. When I retorque some of studs that seemed normal, the nut turns slightly and rebounds back to the original spot. I guess that's just the amount of twist the studs are taking. I'm going to pull those two crazy ones and see if some cleaning will help, but I don't think I have the right tools to run a tap all the way down. hmm

Thanks for the replies! :JEEPIN:


I sure hope you are able to figure this out.
I certainly cant figure out whats going on.
When you torque the nut on the stud it should stay there and not untwist itself.
Furthermore, the stud itself should not be turning as you torque the nut. Sure the stud might turn a little during the initial tightening, but once you are applying 80 or more ft/lbs of torque, only the nut should be turning.
The ARP studs do not twist and they do not stretch.

When I installed my head and studs, during the final torque of 120-130 ft/lbs, I could feel the the nut slightly loosen as I was tightening it. This was due to the aluminum head being crushed under the force of tightening. Or maybe it was the ridge in bolt head recess left behind by the old head bolts. There was no binding of the nut or the stud.
This only happened on 2 or 3 of the studs.

After confirming that my head was cracked, I checked the torque on the studs. They were exactly the way I left them and showed no signs of loosening.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ARP torquing question
[/quote]When I installed my head and studs, during the final torque of 120-130 ft/lbs, I could feel the the nut slightly loosen as I was tightening it. This was due to the aluminum head being crushed under the force of tightening. Or maybe it was the ridge in bolt head recess left behind by the old head bolts. There was no binding of the nut or the stud.
This only happened on 2 or 3 of the studs.[/quote]

Thanks Flash, that sounds exactly like what I was dealing with, only two of them bounced back quite a bit. I think I was mistaken about the stud twisting, not sure though. All I do know is that it finally quit when I retorqued a few times. Hopefully I didn't overtorque it as I was repeatedly hitting it with the 125 and they were both on the outer row :grim:
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