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 Post subject: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild options.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Location: Surrey,BC
My provent system got plugged over by gunk this winter, when I got to my filter it was caked with black thick sludge. It caused the Provent tubes to be eaten up by thick oil and lately jeep has been throwing these codes P0234 P0299 P0401 P0101 and U0121.
The throttle response is also quite sluggish as it takes a while for her to gather herself and go.
I will replace the filter and sweating pipes now I am thinking of replacing the rockers or just bite the bullet and do a complete engine rebuilt. If I go that route, I know ID parts has a complete set of rockers , what more should be done like connecting rods, Pistons sleeves, bearings, arp head studs, am I missing anything more in the list. The jeep has 190000 KMs on it timing belt was done at 160K.


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 Post subject: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild options.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:03 pm 
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Fyi, on my provent, the hose from crank case to provent unit was also spongy, i think it had about 3 years and was a water hose. I replaced it with a samco 22 mm silicone hose and it's still as god as new.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:57 pm 
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None of those codes indicate the need for a engine rebuild.
They indicate a problem with the EGR valve, turbo boost hoses, turbo vacuum system, or turbo itself.
If you haven't already disabled, blocked, or removed your EGR valve I recommend doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:02 pm 
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P0101 is the #1 code we see when the rocker arms are shot. 9 times out or 10, that is a very good indicator.

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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:07 pm 
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These things are easy to diagnose. If the vehicle moves AT ALL under its own power, the engine doesn't need to be rebuilt. If it doesn't... You probably already know why (holes where they shouldn't be, etc)

Sluggish response is universally a problem with air, which is usually accompanied by problems with smoke, which indicate too much fuel for the available air. The computer is expecting more air (boost!) and it doesn't know why it doesn't have it.

Samco or Mishimoto boost hoses are the answer for your boost hoses. If they are original or OEM type, run your hand along them. If it comes off black and filthy, your hoses are porous and should be replaced.

Second is the MAP sensor. IDparts sells one for $25, so this is cheap enough now that it should just be replaced rather than screwing with trying to clean an old sensor. Clean the new one after you have everything else working.

Third is the intake elbow kit. This replaces the entire elbow area and seals off the EGR completely and permanently, such that you have zero misunderstandings about where your boost is going and where the exhaust is going. The EGR valve as stock is a piece of junk and I do not believe it ever maintains a positive seal.

Fourth is the turbo and actuator. There is a little "air filter" under the vacuum actuator on the passenger side of the motor. The box is a vacuum reservoir, and the other electrical thing there is a vacuum controller. The supply line can be removed from the controller and connected to the vacuum actuator IF there is a problem with that or the vacuum reservoir. You can test this by unplugging the vacuum hose that proceeds under the water bottle and over to the "flying saucer" on the turbo. There is a rod under this silver thing that should drop about an inch. Connect the vacuum line and disconnect it a few times with the engine running to see this motion. If it is not about an inch in travel, then the turbo vanes are sticking. This requires removing the turbo to clean and resolve. Considering that you say your CRD can actually move, but it is just sluggish off the line, I am inclined to believe your turbo is just fine. The solution is most likely in one of the above items and not the turbo area.

With regard to rockers, does your engine at idle sound like this?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-Before.mp4

Or this?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-After.mp4

The first video was a CRD with two broken rockers, and you can hear that the idle isn't smooth. After, is when the rockers were all fixed. The RPM flare at the beginning illustrates how the GDE tune sounds on an engine. That is how you know the engine has one of their tunes.

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TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
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Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:46 pm 
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Location: Surrey,BC
It moves under its own power and idle is smooth. I have installed Samco hoses along with new MAP about two years back,it is just that lately the filter got over saturated with gunk and it started going past the Provent filter and it started causing all issues. Weeks elbow kit sounds
like a good idea and MAF values are ranging between 15-13 G/S.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:20 am 
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15-13 seems a bit on the low side, but I contend that lower MAF can easily also be caused by a stuck-open EGR. First thing I'd try since the idle is smooth is corking off that EGR and see if that cleans things up a bit. The excess soot loading of a continuously open EGR would also be quite ugly to the oil and a Provent would reflect that. Sounds like that is your likely source.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:38 am 
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So far these codes keep on popping P0299 & P0401. I am going to get weeks kit, glow plugs , rocker set and valve gasket,arp studs a new filter and lines for the Provent. Just the parts alone are going to be 1000 bucks and then need to find someone to do the job in Vancouver/ Seattle area it is going to be fun eh.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:35 pm 
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Well, tomorrow morning I am flying to Buffalo for two more CRDs, one in Toronto and another in Detroit.

Seattle isn't that much further when an airline is handling the bulk of the work. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:45 am 
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Seriously it would be great if you could plan a trip to pacific north west and i am open to hosting you here. Let us see how much interest is there.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:11 am 
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Srytrucker wrote:
Seriously it would be great if you could plan a trip to pacific north west and i am open to hosting you here. Let us see how much interest is there.

You have a garage?

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Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:14 am 
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Srytrucker, my advice to you would be to go ahead and change the head gasket while you are that close.

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2005 Liberty CRD,fixed the rockers and a couple more things,GDE Hot tune,Weeks Stage 1 and 2 EGR delete,Hot Diesel solutions Tstat assembly(wonderful heat!), ARP studs, OME 1.5" lift.....thanks Seth! (Sold)
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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:50 am 
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WolverineFW wrote:
Srytrucker wrote:
Seriously it would be great if you could plan a trip to pacific north west and i am open to hosting you here. Let us see how much interest is there.

You have a garage?

Yea a buddy of mine has a automotive repair shop in Richmond next to YVR, where he lets me tinker at all times and yet my skill level is not more than a regular oil change on my own.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Srytrucker wrote:
WolverineFW wrote:
Srytrucker wrote:
Seriously it would be great if you could plan a trip to pacific north west and i am open to hosting you here. Let us see how much interest is there.

You have a garage?

Yea a buddy of mine has a automotive repair shop in Richmond next to YVR, where he lets me tinker at all times and yet my skill level is not more than a regular oil change on my own.

It is possible I could help you out, but not right away. It would have to be planned. Who did your timing belt?

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2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:23 am 
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YVR is a Canadian airfield, for some reason I thought you were in Seattle? I'm OK with coming out and doing a few to spread the travel costs and save everyone a share... But just so you are aware, the head gasket shouldn't be messed with unless you are having water leaks. What should be done is the head studs.

This gasket is a multi-layered steel gasket. It doesn't need to be screwed with b/c it shouldn't normally ever fail. The problem is the bolts weaken and the clamping force isn't consistent. That is why it fails.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:34 pm 
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@ geordi
I live in Surrey/Vancouver and do not mind the drive to Seattle to get cross border deals. In fact my timing belt service was done in Seattle ( Snohomish ). I have got all the parts in and looking to get this done. It is exactly as you described it sort of chokes for air then all of a sudden opens up and moves leaving behind a plume of black smoke. I tried to contact you but was not able to get hold of you.

Anyways here is the list of thing to get done
1) weeks elbow kit stage 1 & 2
2) Rockers and Lifters Including valve cover gasket.
3) ARP studs.
4) Glow Plugs etecono 7V.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:28 pm 
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Srytrucker wrote:
@ geordi
I live in Surrey/Vancouver and do not mind the drive to Seattle to get cross border deals. In fact my timing belt service was done in Seattle ( Snohomish ). I have got all the parts in and looking to get this done. It is exactly as you described it sort of chokes for air then all of a sudden opens up and moves leaving behind a plume of black smoke. I tried to contact you but was not able to get hold of you.

Anyways here is the list of thing to get done
1) weeks elbow kit stage 1 & 2
2) Rockers and Lifters Including valve cover gasket.
3) ARP studs.
4) Glow Plugs etecono 7V.


I'm not sure when you tried to get in touch with me - I got your PM from today, and I will be getting back with you shortly. The only thing I see that could be missing on this list is the timing belt. While you don't need the whole kit again, you probably should give serious thought to replacing just the belt - we have no way of knowing how much (if any) stretch the belt has received, and re-tensioning a used belt is a questionable idea at best.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Sluggish throttle response,engine codes and rebuild opti
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:40 pm
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Location: Surrey,BC
Sir if you are flying in for this job i might get the whole timing belt kit again or at least get the belts and the water pump garf metal impeller replaced . The timing belt was done at 160 K Kms in December of 2012 and now the Jeep is at 190,000 so i did get some use out if it.


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