My Lib might be in theft mode

jim66wright · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:46 pm

My daughter was driving home the other night and her 2005 Liberty CRD died.
The next morning I tried to jump it, and that did not work.
No check engine light, and the battery later checked out great.
Replaced the ignition switch and no luck.
Took the computer out and sent to GDE and got the ok and reprogram, re-installed, and no luck.

Mechanic 1, gave up, and I am out $200, to him, for doing what I guessed, just did not want to take to the dealer.
Towed to Mech #2 and paid him $185 to run a check on the wiring, and no luck, nothing out of wack.
We believe it is in theft mode.
We can communicate to the theft system, but the laptop would not communicate to the tranny or the PCM.
Does anyone have any experience with the theft system leaving you stranded or keeping the Lib from starting.
The starter spins and the relays are good. Called the dealer for some help, and they said bring it in, and we will try to fix..but he, the service manager, said that we will never figure it out and it is a common problem.
Help, please.
Thanks,
Jim

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:46 pm

It may sound odd....but it could be a fuel head issue. Do you know if it has the 1st generation fuel head or the 2nd gen? A couple years back mine was running and just died for no apparent reason. It turns out it was the fuel head (I had the 1st gen at the time). Replacing it solves my problem. It could also be a failed crank position sensor.

Jim

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:47 pm

The service manager is a dolt. They may not be able to figure it out but it's not a "common problem".

You say you replaced the ignition switch but that doesn't tell me if you replaced the true ignition switch on the left side of the steering column or the key switch and plastic rod that often breaks under the steering column. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

A massive air leak in the fuel system, could be fuel filter head related, could stop the engine and prevent restart. See Sam's filter head bleeding video.

Faulty cam or crank position sensor or faulty fuel pressure sensor (won't let enough pressure build to fire fuel injectors).

Would be worth trying a known good battery. Battery can test good but not be good.

Check all fuses.

Doubt it's in "theft" mod. As I understand theft mod in this vehicle it will start but then die in like 10 seconds. I don't think there is a theft mod that prevents starting unless you have an aftermarket system. Now there is an little wire antenna thingy, I think, near the key that receives the key signal which could be broken but if it is I don't know what happens.

Nothing will communicate with the tranny or PCM except a dealer instrument or equivalent. Computer system is a kludge.

jim66wright · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:13 pm

kissfan79 wrote:

It may sound odd....but it could be a fuel head issue. Do you know if it has the 1st generation fuel head or the 2nd gen? A couple years back mine was running and just died for no apparent reason. It turns out it was the fuel head (I had the 1st gen at the time). Replacing it solves my problem. It could also be a failed crank position sensor.

Jim

Yes it is the 2nd gen...I did it myself last year, when I was looking for a turbo leak...found that there was an upgrade and did it.

jim66wright · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:26 pm

papaindigo wrote:

The service manager is a dolt. They may not be able to figure it out but it's not a "common problem".

You say you replaced the ignition switch but that doesn't tell me if you replaced the true ignition switch on the left side of the steering column or the key switch and plastic rod that often breaks under the steering column. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

A massive air leak in the fuel system, could be fuel filter head related, could stop the engine and prevent restart. See Sam's filter head bleeding video.

Faulty cam or crank position sensor or faulty fuel pressure sensor (won't let enough pressure build to fire fuel injectors).

Would be worth trying a known good battery. Battery can test good but not be good.

Check all fuses.

Doubt it's in "theft" mod. As I understand theft mod in this vehicle it will start but then die in like 10 seconds. I don't think there is a theft mod that prevents starting unless you have an aftermarket system. Now there is an little wire antenna thingy, I think, near the key that receives the key signal which could be broken but if it is I don't know what happens.

Nothing will communicate with the tranny or PCM except a dealer instrument or equivalent. Computer system is a kludge.

1. The first garage to have her reported to switch replaced, to no avail. The one on the left side of the column.
2. all fuses checked and relays.
3. a guy showed up to the garage with a computer and reportedly hooked into all the systems, and only could talk to the security system module.
4. No check engine light.
5. Security light stays on solid after blinking and chimes end.
6. Agree with the dolt of a service manager, do they all work on commission?
7. It has the factory theft system.
8. Battery 14.1 and test good, but will swap out tomorrow and check.
9. Unhooked the battery for 1.5 hours to hope and reset system.
10. Checked all connections and traced wires, 4 hours, and no problems with wiring.
11. Tried to reprogram keys, but not successful.
12. Hot wired starter, motor spins, no crank.
Thanks, will keep y'all posted.
More tomorrow.
Jim

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:07 pm

What you describe has happened to me and its not fun.

If the security light (red dot) stays on you either need a new SKIM module
or a new antenna thingy that goes around the ignition key receiver.
You will most likely also need two new programmed keys.

jrcstudios · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:14 pm

Just an observation, if you think it might be a key problem;
I had a spare key made for the door only, to keep hidden under the vehicle. It is not a "smart" key.
If I put that key in the ignition and immediately crank it, the engine will run for one full second before it shuts off.
It is as if the vehicle gives you "the benefit of the doubt" before it gives up trying to read the key.
This is on a 2005 CRD

mark2m · **Posted:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:20 pm

Do the 05 CRD's have the same problem with the wiring chafing behind the fuel filter head. If so that may be something to look at.

Mark

Billwill · **Posted:** Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:19 am

Does the engine turn over when you turn the ignition key but not start?

If not, what happens if you jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Motor Relay socket.....engine should turn over.

You say that the security light stays on? Try jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Auto Shut Down Relay socket (ASD)....you may have a wiring problem that stops the ECU activating the ASD relay even though the ECM is happy with the code from the SKIM module....I had this problem!

jim66wright · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:27 am

Billwill wrote:

Does the engine turn over when you turn the ignition key but not start?

If not, what happens if you jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Motor Relay socket.....engine should turn over.

You say that the security light stays on? Try jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Auto Shut Down Relay socket (ASD)....you may have a wiring problem that stops the ECU activating the ASD relay even though the ECM is happy with the code from the SKIM module....I had this problem!

Will try.
Did it crank when you jumped the pins?
Where was the wiring problem,
Thanks!
Jim

jim66wright · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:33 am

flash7210 wrote:

What you describe has happened to me and its not fun.

If the security light (red dot) stays on you either need a new SKIM module
or a new antenna thingy that goes around the ignition key receiver.
You will most likely also need two new programmed keys.

Did you have this problem?

jim66wright · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:52 am

kissfan79 wrote:

It may sound odd....but it could be a fuel head issue. Do you know if it has the 1st generation fuel head or the 2nd gen? A couple years back mine was running and just died for no apparent reason. It turns out it was the fuel head (I had the 1st gen at the time). Replacing it solves my problem. It could also be a failed crank position sensor.

Jim

Sorry for the late reply...chasing other ideas...I replaced unit last year when I replaced the turbo hose...
Thanks!

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:03 am

jim66wright wrote:

Billwill wrote:

Does the engine turn over when you turn the ignition key but not start?

If not, what happens if you jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Motor Relay socket.....engine should turn over.

You say that the security light stays on? Try jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Auto Shut Down Relay socket (ASD)....you may have a wiring problem that stops the ECU activating the ASD relay even though the ECM is happy with the code from the SKIM module....I had this problem!

Will try.
Did it crank when you jumped the pins?
Where was the wiring problem,
Thanks!
Jim

Yes it cranked with the ASD relay pins 30 and 87 jumpered...and it started and ran fine. Left the jumper in for a while....no chance of the Jeep getting stolen if someone tries to start it without the correct chipped key in place in the ignition slot.

This will only work if the ECU is happy with the code it receives for the chipped key from the SKIM module but it...the ECU..is not getting confirmation back from the ASD relay that it...the relay... has energized properly.

I had a a broken wire going from the ECU to the ASD relay so that the "energize" voltage to the relay never got there. I replaced the wire with a new one. :wink:

jim66wright · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:28 am

papaindigo wrote:

The service manager is a dolt. They may not be able to figure it out but it's not a "common problem".

You say you replaced the ignition switch but that doesn't tell me if you replaced the true ignition switch on the left side of the steering column or the key switch and plastic rod that often breaks under the steering column. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

A massive air leak in the fuel system, could be fuel filter head related, could stop the engine and prevent restart. See Sam's filter head bleeding video.

Faulty cam or crank position sensor or faulty fuel pressure sensor (won't let enough pressure build to fire fuel injectors).

Would be worth trying a known good battery. Battery can test good but not be good.

Check all fuses.

Doubt it's in "theft" mod. As I understand theft mod in this vehicle it will start but then die in like 10 seconds. I don't think there is a theft mod that prevents starting unless you have an aftermarket system. Now there is an little wire antenna thingy, I think, near the key that receives the key signal which could be broken but if it is I don't know what happens.

Nothing will communicate with the tranny or PCM except a dealer instrument or equivalent. Computer system is a kludge.

Thanks papdindgo!
We will be starting from the beginning again today.
1. check battery.
2. check ground in the ignition switch to see if either the switch or the actuator pin is broken.
3. we have access to a dealer instrument, that is how we got to talk to the Anti Theft system, which told us there was a communication error to the PCM and the TCM. That should be a clue, but as Great Minds Think Alike, Fools rarely Differ....so we are still scratching our heads.
4. We will look for wiring problems behind the fuel filter as mark2m stated he had....so wiring harness.
Thanks again. Will report later today.
Cheers!

jim66wright · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:39 am

jim66wright wrote:

papaindigo wrote:

The service manager is a dolt. They may not be able to figure it out but it's not a "common problem".

You say you replaced the ignition switch but that doesn't tell me if you replaced the true ignition switch on the left side of the steering column or the key switch and plastic rod that often breaks under the steering column. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

A massive air leak in the fuel system, could be fuel filter head related, could stop the engine and prevent restart. See Sam's filter head bleeding video.

Faulty cam or crank position sensor or faulty fuel pressure sensor (won't let enough pressure build to fire fuel injectors).

Would be worth trying a known good battery. Battery can test good but not be good.

Check all fuses.

Doubt it's in "theft" mod. As I understand theft mod in this vehicle it will start but then die in like 10 seconds. I don't think there is a theft mod that prevents starting unless you have an aftermarket system. Now there is an little wire antenna thingy, I think, near the key that receives the key signal which could be broken but if it is I don't know what happens.

Nothing will communicate with the tranny or PCM except a dealer instrument or equivalent. Computer system is a kludge.

Thanks papdindgo!
We will be starting from the beginning again today.
1. check battery.
2. check ground in the ignition switch to see if either the switch or the actuator pin is broken.
3. we have access to a dealer instrument, that is how we got to talk to the Anti Theft system, which told us there was a communication error to the PCM and the TCM. That should be a clue, but as Great Minds Think Alike, Fools rarely Differ....so we are still scratching our heads.
4. We will look for wiring problems behind the fuel filter as mark2m stated he had....so wiring harness.
Thanks again. Will report later today.
Cheers!

did the jump in the PCM and the engine cranked....the other shop charged me for replacing this unit, but after we broke down the steering column, the original ignition switch was still in there...called the parts guy and said that the numbers on the switch were OEM, factory. So we are changing this today with the replacement actuator pin assembly, just because we are in there....
Thanks

jim66wright · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:45 am

Billwill wrote:

jim66wright wrote:

Billwill wrote:

Does the engine turn over when you turn the ignition key but not start?

If not, what happens if you jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Motor Relay socket.....engine should turn over.

You say that the security light stays on? Try jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Auto Shut Down Relay socket (ASD)....you may have a wiring problem that stops the ECU activating the ASD relay even though the ECM is happy with the code from the SKIM module....I had this problem!

Will try.
Did it crank when you jumped the pins?
Where was the wiring problem,
Thanks!
Jim

Yes it cranked with the ASD relay pins 30 and 87 jumpered...and it started and ran fine. Left the jumper in for a while....no chance of the Jeep getting stolen if someone tries to start it without the correct chipped key in place in the ignition slot.

This will only work if the ECU is happy with the code it receives for the chipped key from the SKIM module but it...the ECU..is not getting confirmation back from the ASD relay that it...the relay... has energized properly.

I had a a broken wire going from the ECU to the ASD relay so that the "energize" voltage to the relay never got there. I replaced the wire with a new one. :wink:

Thanks!
Mine cranked, but did not start. We are replacing the ignition switch and pin assembly, first. If this does not work, then we will replace the SKIM module. The other two parts fail on occasion, and they are less than $50, so not a big deal at this point...more today, I hope.
:banghead:

jim66wright · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:49 am

jrcstudios wrote:

Just an observation, if you think it might be a key problem;
I had a spare key made for the door only, to keep hidden under the vehicle. It is not a "smart" key.
If I put that key in the ignition and immediately crank it, the engine will run for one full second before it shuts off.
It is as if the vehicle gives you "the benefit of the doubt" before it gives up trying to read the key.
This is on a 2005 CRD

I tried both keys that I have and got the system to single chirp running a reprogramming recommended by the service manual, to reset the alarm, as a test...but we are replacing the ignition switch and associated pin assembly today and will see if we can get her started...
Thanks!

jim66wright · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:59 am

jim66wright wrote:

papaindigo wrote:

The service manager is a dolt. They may not be able to figure it out but it's not a "common problem".

You say you replaced the ignition switch but that doesn't tell me if you replaced the true ignition switch on the left side of the steering column or the key switch and plastic rod that often breaks under the steering column. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574

A massive air leak in the fuel system, could be fuel filter head related, could stop the engine and prevent restart. See Sam's filter head bleeding video.

Faulty cam or crank position sensor or faulty fuel pressure sensor (won't let enough pressure build to fire fuel injectors).

Would be worth trying a known good battery. Battery can test good but not be good.

Check all fuses.

Doubt it's in "theft" mod. As I understand theft mod in this vehicle it will start but then die in like 10 seconds. I don't think there is a theft mod that prevents starting unless you have an aftermarket system. Now there is an little wire antenna thingy, I think, near the key that receives the key signal which could be broken but if it is I don't know what happens.

Nothing will communicate with the tranny or PCM except a dealer instrument or equivalent. Computer system is a kludge.

Thanks papdindgo!
We will be starting from the beginning again today.
1. check battery.
2. check ground in the ignition switch to see if either the switch or the actuator pin is broken.
3. we have access to a dealer instrument, that is how we got to talk to the Anti Theft system, which told us there was a communication error to the PCM and the TCM. That should be a clue, but as Great Minds Think Alike, Fools rarely Differ....so we are still scratching our heads.
4. We will look for wiring problems behind the fuel filter as mark2m stated he had....so wiring harness.
Thanks again. Will report later today.
Cheers!

Update:
New shop, new terrors....
The new shop, THE Jeep Guys, in downtown Greensboro, have found the problem.
The #14 fuse keeps blowing, and when it does the SKIM module freezes up. Their original quote of $250 was to investigate the issue, so I asked for a repair quote and they quoted $595...plus parts.
Now it is $760, now that they have "found" the problem. They have replaced the fuse and then it will blow on a test drive.
I have asked them to stop, since they really dont know which wire is shorting out.
So Mark2m was right, it was a wiring harness issue, now we need to find the problem and replace the junction or the wire...which ever is causing the short.
More later.
Jim

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:48 am

For weird electrical problems like repeated fuse blowing I've found, based on local DCJ dealer recommendation, it's best to find a good local auto electric specialty shop assuming you are not an electric system whiz yourself, I'm not.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:41 pm

Apparently the Jeep Guys so called techs cannot read a wiring diagram.....get it out of there and follow papaindigo's suggestion.

My Lib might be in theft mode

Who is online