waterless coolant

lacabrera · **Posted:** Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:54 pm

Any one here using a waterless coolant? I am always looking for improvements to keep my CRD running well. Because of the numbers suffering with head gasket problems I am thinking of replacing the coolant with a waterless version. Expensive but with a boiling point far higher than water, sounds impressive.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:17 pm

Been discussed before. I don't recall very favorable comments. Just use Xerex G-05 or equivalent change every 50k miles and forget it. G-05's boiling point for a 50/50 mix, most common, is 265F which is somewhat past the red line on the temp gauge. More important than boiling point is level of freeze protection and proper chemistry for the specific engine's cooling system.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:44 pm

I'll add that for non race driving, the cooling capacity of the crd is pretty darn good.

flman · **Posted:** Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:45 pm

Very unlikely coolant is going to prevent a head leak that is normally caused by compression. You need to install ARPs or lower your compression.

Infinite_Karma · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:59 pm

What if you don't mix the Xerex G-05 that you've been using? Meaning I've never added water.

I haven't actually done a full flush of my coolant since I bought my rig almost 3 years ago. I did have a ton of 100k work done on it right after buying it (the timing belt kit, waterpump, intercooler, and thermostat) and so I'm sure that the coolant was done then, but ever since, I've only had to add Xerex G-05 once or twice to top off when it got a little low.

If I don't mix it with the 50/50 distilled water will that cause problems?

Just wondering.

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:38 pm

I put nearly 2 gallons of G05 into mine, and used distilled water to top it off (It wasn't very much). No problems after 40k miles.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:50 pm

Waterless coolant is a waste of money on this engine. Xerex G-05 is the perfect coolant, and the head gasket problems are caused by the garbage factory bolts, not by the water in the engine.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:01 pm

hmm, I've seen two blocks where the water passages near the cylinders had made the surface of the block noticeably concave via RUST. Maybe waterless coolant will help save the block from becoming scrap in another decade? I'm afraid this will be the next big head gasket failure catalyst. I should have taken pictures, but the engine I have that needs a new sleeve, is due to the dealership sanding away at the rust next to #4 on the exhaust side...

I guess the void in the block could be welded/filled and then milled flat again, but that requires pulling all 4 sleeves! :banghead:

Then again, maybe the sleeve that doesn't readily rust, will contain the compression even if there's a void right outside of it :dizzy:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:45 pm

I'm not exactly picturing what you are referring to, but the sleeve is much stronger steel than the pig iron of the block casting. The purpose of the sleeve is to 100% contain the boom, while keeping the oil and water sides from contacting each other. The block shouldn't be rusting unless someone wasn't operating it with the proper coolant in the first place, but even then - rough cast iron will rust a bit just by breathing on it, and in some cases that rust is actually a protective layer b/c as long as the corrosion isn't removed, it won't rot any deeper. But while it is covered / filled with rust-inhibitor coolant... It shouldn't be rusting at all.

Somebody did something they shouldn't have with this engine, and the dealership's monkeying around and grinding at the engine is the least of the problems.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:02 pm

hmm, there was evidence of the wrong coolant having been previously added to one of the engines (white goop) but the other one was a lost members and dealer maintained (not that they couldn't have put green coolant in it).

That's good to know that rust blocks further rust. thanks, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:27 pm

Mountainman wrote:

hmm, there was evidence of the wrong coolant having been previously added to one of the engines (white goop) but the other one was a lost members and dealer maintained (not that they couldn't have put green coolant in it).

That's good to know that rust blocks further rust. thanks, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

Guess you never heard of the term "seasoning the block",old timers in the engine rebuild side of the trade know this term well.Basically you sat a bare block outside to rust for some time,actually made it stronger.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:09 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

hmm, there was evidence of the wrong coolant having been previously added to one of the engines (white goop) but the other one was a lost members and dealer maintained (not that they couldn't have put green coolant in it).

That's good to know that rust blocks further rust. thanks, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

Guess you never heard of the term "seasoning the block",old timers in the engine rebuild side of the trade know this term well.Basically you sat a bare block outside to rust for some time,actually made it stronger.

Interesting. Sounds like something I used to know back when I was into building muscle cars :5SHOTS:

lacabrera · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:34 pm

Interesting views? One thing I did notice on my alloy head was heavy pitting to the machined surface on and around all the water ways? I cannot remember the correct term at the moment, but its something to do with 2 different metals with a electrical charge with in the coolant. electrolyses I think? If it does what it says on the tin, waterless coolant prevents this? Or maybe the previous owner never replaced the coolant?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:44 pm

You are thinking of bi-metal corrosion, which could be a function of electrolysis but shouldn't be in this case. I'd bet good money on the wrong coolant being used / introduced and that is why the system didn't function properly and you have pitting. The other thing to remember is that these are cast parts, and the non-mating surfaces would have been left rough because that is cheaper than wasting time and money to mill them smooth.

Mating surfaces should be smooth and clean however. If they are not, then something else happened in the life of this vehicle that caused the damage.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

geordi wrote:

You are thinking of bi-metal corrosion, which could be a function of electrolysis but shouldn't be in this case.

Also known as galvanic corrosion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:45 am

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/zerex_g05.pdf

Quote:

When diluted 50% with water, Zerex G 05 protects
modern engine components from winter freezing and
summer boil over. The chart at the top right provides
mixing information. A 50% to 70% concentration range
is suggested for optimum corrosion protection.

For the best corrosion protection, use de-ionized or distilled water.

http://www.englefieldoil.com/PDF/ZerexG-05QAs.pdf

Quote:

What vehicles use Zerex G-05 in the factory fill and what is the dye color?
1984 Mercedes and beyond (light yellow)
1990 Deere and Company vehicles and beyond (green)
2001 Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep and beyond (orange)
2002 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury trucks and SUVS and beyond (yellow)
2003 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury automobiles and beyond (yellow)

What aftermarket products are approved by Ford and Chrysler?
Ford, Lincoln, Mercury brands - Ford Motorcraft Gold and Zerex G-05
Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep brands –Mopar 5/100 Antifreeze and Zerex G-05

What is the difference between these products?
All products use the Zerex G-05 formulation. The only difference is the dye color.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:08 am

Infinite_Karma wrote:

What if you don't mix the Xerex G-05 that you've been using? Meaning I've never added water.

I haven't actually done a full flush of my coolant since I bought my rig almost 3 years ago. I did have a ton of 100k work done on it right after buying it (the timing belt kit, waterpump, intercooler, and thermostat) and so I'm sure that the coolant was done then, but ever since, I've only had to add Xerex G-05 once or twice to top off when it got a little low.

If I don't mix it with the 50/50 distilled water will that cause problems?

Just wondering.

I think the only problem with running 100% coolant (no water added) is that the engine will run a little too hot because straight coolant transfers heat more slowly as it passes through the radiator.
But you will get maximum boil-over protection and corrosion resistance.

Of course, its possible that you have been using the 50/50 pre mixed formula where no additional water is needed.

Infinite_Karma · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:20 pm

Thanks y'all for the replies and the information. Flash, thank you for the specifics!

I'll just do a full flush when I upgrade my Thermostat housing & unit from the old stock to the custom 4J/IG ENGINEERING "Model 001" from TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK (http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=169&t=75791&start=340).

WOOOHOO!

Check this beauty out!
http://s63.photobucket.com/user/TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK/media/IMG_1453_zps5db8bfb9.jpg.html

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

flash7210 wrote:

Infinite_Karma wrote:

What if you don't mix the Xerex G-05 that you've been using? Meaning I've never added water.

I haven't actually done a full flush of my coolant since I bought my rig almost 3 years ago. I did have a ton of 100k work done on it right after buying it (the timing belt kit, waterpump, intercooler, and thermostat) and so I'm sure that the coolant was done then, but ever since, I've only had to add Xerex G-05 once or twice to top off when it got a little low.

If I don't mix it with the 50/50 distilled water will that cause problems?

Just wondering.

I think the only problem with running 100% coolant (no water added) is that the engine will run a little too hot because straight coolant transfers heat more slowly as it passes through the radiator.
But you will get maximum boil-over protection and corrosion resistance.

Of course, its possible that you have been using the 50/50 pre mixed formula where no additional water is needed.

100% mono ethylene glycol freezes at approximately 8 degrees F and doesn't shed heat as well as 50/50 H2O/antifreeze. Maximum freeze protection is achieved with a mixture of approximately 70/30 ethylene glycol / H2O. As concentration of mono ethylene glycol increases past 70%, freezing point no longer decreases, but instead starts increasing.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:58 am

"PI Sheet" at http://www.valvoline.com/our-products/a ... ze-coolant gives level of temp (cold) protection at various mixes and boiling point. 70% is the highest recommended mix. Yes level of temp protection does decrease significantly when you exceed 70% but I don't know the rate of decrease.

Just FYI be careful when purchasing that you don't get the more expensive "pre-mix". It's significantly cheaper to get the straight stuff and mix with cheap demineralized water from the local grocery store.

waterless coolant

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