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Recycled / refined restaurant oil
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Author:  BKH [ Tue May 09, 2006 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Recycled / refined restaurant oil
I live in Denver. Friday night I saw a news story about a place in town selling recycled restaurant vegetable oil that had been "refined" into biodiesel. Apparently the place selling the stuff has become so popular that they are running through about 90 gallons a day (not much when you really think aobut it, but apparently more than this ma and pa place ever anticipated).

Has anyone tried running this in their CRD? BlueSun offers B100 at a pump about 10 miles from my house - If I was going to use 100% bio, would it be safer to use their traditionally made bio, as opposed to the recycled restaurant oil?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Author:  Ripster [ Tue May 09, 2006 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not that it can't be done correctly, but be very careful with the refined bio. All depends on the
standards they use when making it.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recycled / refined restaurant oil
BKH wrote:
I live in Denver. Friday night I saw a news story about a place in town selling recycled restaurant vegetable oil that had been "refined" into biodiesel. Apparently the place selling the stuff has become so popular that they are running through about 90 gallons a day (not much when you really think aobut it, but apparently more than this ma and pa place ever anticipated).

Has anyone tried running this in their CRD? BlueSun offers B100 at a pump about 10 miles from my house - If I was going to use 100% bio, would it be safer to use their traditionally made bio, as opposed to the recycled restaurant oil?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


Just wondering if this is a commercial refiner or someone selling home brew from their garage? The oil source being new or recycled doesn't make a big difference. What does matter is the quality of the finished fuel. With the high pressures of the common rail system in your CRD you would be best to stick with a commercial refiner with consistant standards and will stand behind their product quality.

Be assured that if this is a home brewer and it's hit the news, Uncle Sugar will come knocking soon looking for their road taxes. I doubt they will be at it very long.
Author:  BKH [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
It appears to be a business that goes around collecting used oil from restaurants around town. They "refine" it themselves. The news story showed a new VW Jetta TDI filling up there. I'm a little scared to put something like that in my tank - but I thought maybe I was being too cautious. Apparently not!
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue May 09, 2006 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
BKH wrote:
It appears to be a business that goes around collecting used oil from restaurants around town. They "refine" it themselves. The news story showed a new VW Jetta TDI filling up there. I'm a little scared to put something like that in my tank - but I thought maybe I was being too cautious. Apparently not!


That brew maybe fine, maybe not. Look at it this way: 24,000 psi fuel through and orifice hole the size of a pin hole. You are not being too cautious.
Author:  valkraider [ Wed May 10, 2006 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Biodiesel is biodiesel, whether it is made from virgin oil or recycled oil. The only major differences will be it's gelling points, and slight (imperceptible to the driver) changes in power characteristics, and color.

You are not going to get a french fry stuck in your injector.

You are at more risk of crud in the fuel with regular number 2 diesel....

But that is what the fuel filter is for, eh?

Our local biodiesel refinery makes millions of gallons of biodiesel annually from recycled cooking oil. I believe they have a 1million gallon plant online for a year now, and their 4million gallon plant comes online this summer. They are supplying distribution companies, transit agencies, and all sorts of businesses...

Fear of recycled cooking oil is nothing but Biodiesel FUD. (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt).

The bigger factor is making sure the producer, and the ENTIRE distribution chain is trustworthy. (Remember, a dirty delivery tank is just as bad as a bad batch of biodiesel).
Author:  tazer [ Wed May 10, 2006 3:38 am ]
Post subject: 
I know this is not an exact comparison to the CRD but I have been running Biodiesel in my tractor for about two years now. I have had no probs what so ever and have actually noticed things seem a little "cleaner" but it could be that sweet french fry smell coming from the exhaust now.
Author:  naturist [ Wed May 10, 2006 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  "refined" WVO vs. "virgin" SVO
If what they are selling is "refined" by running it through a filter, it is NOT a good idea, either for your CRD or for a "new" (meaning newer than 2003 model year) VW TDI.

If what they are selling is "refined" by chemical conversion into FAMEs, then it is mostly irrelevant whether they started with waste restaurant oil or virgin oil. What is critical is that it meet the standards for ASTM certification.

It is HIGHLY unlikely a ma and pa operation would actually get their oil ASTM certified because of the cost. I've been in contact with one of the labs authorized to perform the necessary tests, and they charge about $1200 for the full round of tests.

And ASTM certification is the rub. If you run into problems with your fueling system that can be blamed on the fuel, they will surely be expensive problems AND you can be certain DC will refused to cover those costs under the warranty. If you use fuel that has not been ASTM certified, you will foot those prodigious bills for repair out of your own pocket. ASTM certified fuel will both assure you don't have the problem in the first place, AND is the first step in making the fuel maker responsible for the damage in the second place.

If you have deep enough pockets and are willing to front the risk, ma and pa's homemade might be just the ticket. But if it were me, I'd drive the 10 miles to buy ASTM certified fuel every time.
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed May 10, 2006 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok guys remember that no auto mfg warranty's fuel related problems, the fuel supplier does. If you are using you own home made brew and screw something up, you are responsible not the mfg. The CRD will run fine on clean straight Veggie oil if it is warm enough (80*F +) and engine will sound better on it then any petro diesel you could buy. The only problem is the oil thickens as it gets cooler, the ideal temp would probably be about 140*F for operation. All that said I would only run straight veggi oil in the CRD in an emergency, B100 from a propper fuel supplier should have no problem and be better for the fuel system then petro diesel.
Author:  valkraider [ Wed May 10, 2006 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh yeah, I forgot one more difference between biodiesel made from virgin oil and biodiesel made from recycled cooking oil...

The recycled cooking oil biodiesel will smell slightly like what was cooked in it when burned... People get cravings for french fries when they follow me around. :)

But the point has been made, and I will say it again:

BIODIESEL is *NOT* simply recycled or filtered vegitable oil. That is called "Straight Vegitable Oil" (SVO) or "Waste Vegitable Oil" (WVO).

BIODIESEL is a *Refined* fuel that is functionally the same as petroleum based diesel number 2. It is made *from* vegitable oil, but it is chemically converted to diesel form...

Most vehicles need at least a minor conversion kit to realistically use SVO or WVO (like fuel heaters or dual tanks, etc etc). Any modern diesel engine can burn BIODIESEL with no modifications required. Diesel engines older than 1992 - 1995 may need some hoses or seals changed to viton rubber (biodiesel softens nitrile rubber which some older engines used).
Author:  dgeist [ Wed May 10, 2006 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
My advice is to read up on Biodiesel.org and test a sample if you're not sure. If you don't have the chemisty foo to do so yourself, you can have a local chemical lab do so for peace-of-mind.

In my area, the only B100 retailer gets their fuel from a producer that uses waste chicken fat for raw materials. and I've run B100 in several tanks with no problems.

Dan
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed May 10, 2006 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Has anyone seen the new process for making diesel from pig pooh? It is considered same as petro diesel. I think a couple NIU types came up with the process, anyway I saw a ckip on it yesterday on ABC news I think. Wonder what it smells like?
Author:  bhysjulien [ Wed May 10, 2006 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Foxnews.com has a short article the proces also. Typically, they're saying it's going to be a couple of years before the process gets sorted out enough for mass production.
Author:  RFCRD [ Thu May 11, 2006 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
Has anyone seen the new process for making diesel from pig pooh? It is considered same as petro diesel. I think a couple NIU types came up with the process, anyway I saw a ckip on it yesterday on ABC news I think. Wonder what it smells like?


Bet it won't smell like KFC!
Author:  oldnavy [ Thu May 11, 2006 7:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Sausage???
Author:  RFCRD [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:56 am ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
Sausage???


Probably more like burning cow pies.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu May 11, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
oldnavy wrote:
Sausage???


Probably more like burning cow pies.


Hummmm! I take exception to the COW PIE remark! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  oldnavy [ Thu May 11, 2006 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
For you who might be interested I have been contacted by a VW owner who would like to do a show and tell on the conversion to using WVO also known as greasel or grease car. He has not locked in the date as yet, but says it looks doable to him. So if any here are interested and need an excuse to come this could be it. I have a page here in the CRD section about the GTG.
Author:  chrismc [ Thu May 11, 2006 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oldnavy- I'd definitely drive down if you hosted something in your neck of the woods. I live just west of St Louis. If you got a good turnout, you could probably get someone from Greaselto show up, as they're in SW Missouri. Actually, Greasel is having they're annual gathering June 16-18th. Perhaps we could get some KJ's to show up for this? They apparently have a pretty cool dual-chamber tank (5G diesel, 15G WVO) kit for the Liberty that just came out.

I'm not on the biofuel bandwagon yet, but plan to be soon. I only have 500 miles on my CRD nad haven't even paid the sales tax yet. One step at a time...
Author:  oldnavy [ Thu May 11, 2006 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Crismc do come on down reguardless of greasel possibile show up, there will be fun and work being done, plenty of food and we would love to have you show up with your CRD. But I will go ahead and contact Greasel about the possibility of them coming down for show & tell and possible sales. Here is the website about the GTG listed at the VW diesel forum TDI Club GTG if you want to watch that portion of GTG info. I will be posting directions & motel info everyone probably later today.
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