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Our Jeeps and the Cold
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84926		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  undrgnd [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Our Jeeps and the Cold
First winter with the beast and they really do struggle in the cold.

Today after warming the car up for about 3 min I went to take off and I pressed on the Gas and nothing happened for about 5 secs then I got power. No codes or light. I know these are drive by but why would this happen??

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Chris
Author:  dennyb [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Doesn't sound normal. Mines run reliably down to indicated -15 on the evic. (West Michigan) Starts rougher at those temps though. Has it repeated doing this?
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
undrgnd - where are you located and is you KJ a Liberty or Cherokee? Does it have a manual or automatic transmission? If automatic when you press the go pedal what exactly happens a) nothing for 5 seconds or b) engine rpms go up but vehicle does not move?
Author:  undrgnd [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
I live in nz and yeaterday it was -5 degree celcius.

It's an auto transmission and a cherokee down here.

To be honest I can remember if the car was reving or not. I remember it didn't do anything then it just started to drive.

I will try and replicate this morning as its -7 and report back.

Thanks

Chriz
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
-5c = 23 F which is right at the edge of needing to use the block heater (look for a wadded up cord bundle attached to the oil dipstick tube).

As to the no go - there is a well know transmission fluid drain back issue on the automatic. If the vehicle sits for 6+hrs the fluid may drain out of the torque converter and at first startup when put in gear the vehicle won't move but the engine will rev. Takes a few seconds to pump fluid up to the TC. If it does it again and the engine revs immediately shift into neutral and hold a high idle (12-1500 rpm) for 15-30 seconds then shift into R or D; if vehicle goes you have ID the problem. First option to fix is ignore and follow this procedure; second option to fix is service the tranny with new filters and plenty of ATF+4
Author:  mass-hole [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
papaindigo wrote:
-5c = 23 F which is right at the edge of needing to use the block heater (look for a wadded up cord bundle attached to the oil dipstick tube).

As to the no go - there is a well know transmission fluid drain back issue on the automatic. If the vehicle sits for 6+hrs the fluid may drain out of the torque converter and at first startup when put in gear the vehicle won't move but the engine will rev. Takes a few seconds to pump fluid up to the TC. If it does it again and the engine revs immediately shift into neutral and hold a high idle (12-1500 rpm) for 15-30 seconds then shift into R or D; if vehicle goes you have ID the problem. First option to fix is ignore and follow this procedure; second option to fix is service the tranny with new filters and plenty of ATF+4

Supposedly chevy doesn't think the 2.8 im the Colorado needs a block heater until 0F. I guess their heater wires have an inline thermostat that doesn't close until 0 which seems ridiculously low.

Go check out the Understanding Ecu Maps thread in the CRD Tech section. Yeti and I found where to make adjustments for high idle based on coolant temperature. I currently have mine set up to idle at 1200 rpm up to 0C, then drops to 1000 rpm until 40C, then drops to the normal 760 rpm above that. The table we edit only applies to park and neutral so u can go start it up and let it idle, then when you go put it in drive it will drop back to 760 so it doesn't roll really fast when you let off the brake.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Author:  Ceearedeedriver [ Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Sure sounds like drainback. A new spin on filter might fix it but not always. Most of us end up just living with it. Interestingly, they put a check valve in the cooler line on the Dakota application but many owners remove it because it's prone to failure. You can't win with this transmission :( .

Cold shouldn't be an issue. We go down to -30C here and I rarely use the heater. Sure it rattles and sounds rough as f*** below about -15C but always starts first time.
Author:  undrgnd [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Wow that's cold. Thanks for coming back to me.

It must have been drain back as it has not done it since.

The only difference is that I let it idle for about 2 to 3 min before driving off now.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
If, as it seems to be, your issue was drain back there is no benefit to idling more than 15-30 seconds in neutral and I'll note the longer idling won't help warming the vehicle up either, especially not with a diesel. Best bet on warming up the engine and other fluids is to crank up, do a brief idle, drive off but conservatively until the temp gauge needle shows signs of life.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
undrgnd wrote:
The only difference is that I let it idle for about 2 to 3 min before driving off now.

When you let it idle, be sure you place the transmission in neutral for the idle time! It only takes about 30 seconds of idle time in neutral for the transmission oil pump to completely charge up/fill up all components and void spaces with transmission fluid. Revving up the motor is totally unnecessary and is not good for a cold motor right after you first start it; idling in neutral is all that is required! :!:

The reason why this happens:
When the transmission sets for a long period, some or most of the fluid in the oil cooler and oil cooler lines will drain back to the oil pan and when you first start the motor and immediately place it into drive or reverse to go, the pump must charge up the oil cooler and lines, thus the hesitation. When the transmission is in the PARK position, the transmission oil pump does not pump fluid until the gear shifter is placed in neutral or in one of the drive gears. That is how it is designed from the factory! It is also not wise on very hot days to leave the engine idling for long periods in PARK when the transmission is at operating temperature, if you must idle, place the transmission in neutral and apply the parking brake! That way fluid is being pumped through the oil cooler!
This is not just a Jeep thing, Dodge trucks do the same thing and as stated before Dodge even put a check valve in one of the oil cooler lines from the factory trying to prevent this phenomenon. Many Dodge owners have since removed the check valve due to they were prone to sticking... :roll:
Author:  undrgnd [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Wow! I did not know either of the above. Thank you so much for the explanation.

Starting procedure amended. Thanks all!!
Author:  fool4wheelin [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
I live in Fargo, ND and it gets pretty cold here in the winter, -10°F to -20°F (-23°C to -29°C) during the night. When I bought my CRD it had a fairly large capacity Interstate battery that started waving the white flag after 4-years of use. Swapped it out for a Sears Die Hard Platinum AGM (rebranded Odyssey) and haven't had any starting issues since. It does make a lot of noise when starting below 0°F (-18°C) though. Make sure you're using Blended or #1 Diesel below 32°F (0°C), and is a good idea to use the block heater if convenient.
Author:  undrgnd [ Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Thanks mate and wow that's cold. Battery is not to far away from dying and i will use optima as i have used them im all my cars in the past.

I have been doing the idle in N trick which works incredibly well. Amazing the quirks this car has...love it!
Author:  Bushman5 [ Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Also make sure you use Power Service Arctic (white bottle ) in the winter.

Prevents gelling and makes starting super easy in sub celcius weather. Even without using the block heater.

http://powerservice.com/psp_product/die ... ane-boost/
Author:  undrgnd [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Our Jeeps and the Cold
Ok started the car this morning. -5 degree celcius. Put in N for 2 min. Then put in reverse and the was a click click click sound. Not fast like a tick per second. Put it back in N for a couple more min to types this...now it's gone.

Any thoughts what that is?
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