Rocker or not to Rocker

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:04 pm

What is the consensus, do I do the rockers with the timing belt? I've had my EGR blocked since 42k miles and GDE tune since like 48K. Always have done my own oil changes with Rotella T6 or M1 TDT every 5k.

Is it wise to do the ARP studs without swapping the HG? Mine seems to be good. A shop just checked my coolant this morning trying to run down an overheat issue and there is no exhaust gas. Nothing in the oil.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:38 pm

My stats are similar to yours.
At 160k miles when I pulled my head my rockers were still in good shape.
I replaced them anyway because I had already bought them.

I think ARP studs are good insurance for future longevity. Especially if you want to pump up the boost.
Ultimately it's your call.
If you decide to pull the intake for studs you can inspect the rockers and decide from there.
IDparts ships quickly.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:39 pm

flash7210 wrote:

My stats are similar to yours.
At 160k miles when I pulled my head my rockers were still in good shape.
I replaced them anyway because I had already bought them.

I think ARP studs are good insurance for future longevity. Especially if you want to pump up the boost.
Ultimately it's your call.
If you decide to pull the intake for studs you can inspect the rockers and decide from there.
IDparts ships quickly.

I gave them a call and thats basically what he said. He could ship them in 2 days if they were f'd up.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:58 pm

I think I would replace the rockers anyways. When I pulled my old ones and compared them with the new ones that Jim was installing for me. The new ones were a different design and they looked like a more robust design. I will try and get a picture comparing the two designs.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:04 pm

I think in light of what we know now based on the dropped valve experiences of some on this forum, I would seriously consider pulling the head and replacing all the exhaust valves if I were going into the motor that deep! It may be some of the best money you ever spend!!! :wink:

We are all awaiting on the feedback and reports from geordi and others on the metallurgy reports which will hopefully guide us all in what the best course of action when going into the top end of these motors!!!! :roll:

How about it geordi, anything new you can share???? Inquiring minds want to know! :juggle:

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

We replaced the rockers/lifters on my wife's CRD at 101k miles when we replaced the timing belt and installed the ARP studs. The head gasket was not replaced. I could not feel a difference between the new rockers and the old rockers. The replacement lifters are a newer design. The original lifters are held together with a crimp and the new lifters use a circlip.

I loaded the GDE FT ECO tune at 49k miles and removed all the EGR hardware at 61k miles. I use Mobil 1 5w-40 TDT and change it every 6k miles. CRD currently has 106k miles.

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:29 pm

Old Style Lifter

New style lifter/Rocker

farmnfly · **Joined:** Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:22 pm **Posts:** 24

My jeep had 170,000 miles when a lifter broke holding a intake valve partially open, I had noticed for weeks that the motor sounded a little different. Upon dissasembly it had to broke lifters and two bad rockers. My jeep is rust free and in overall great condition so after crawling through the forums I decided not to chance anything and ordered the rocker-lifter-camshaft assembly, all new valves, and the typical timing belt items. With the machine shop work it was about two grand. At least now I can count on another 100,000 trouble free miles. As a bonus it picked up about 3 mpg, I didn't go with the arp studs as the jeep never tows anything and the wife has been known to be passed by mopeds!

rankom · **Posted:** Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:35 pm

farmnfly wrote:

My jeep had 170,000 miles when a lifter broke holding a intake valve partially open, I had noticed for weeks that the motor sounded a little different. Upon dissasembly it had to broke lifters and two bad rockers. My jeep is rust free and in overall great condition so after crawling through the forums I decided not to chance anything and ordered the rocker-lifter-camshaft assembly, all new valves, and the typical timing belt items. With the machine shop work it was about two grand. At least now I can count on another 100,000 trouble free miles. As a bonus it picked up about 3 mpg, I didn't go with the arp studs as the jeep never tows anything and the wife has been known to be passed by mopeds!

most of my old lifter where stuck , when i try to squeeze them with alligator players , so i took one a part and cleaned it and i was able to squeezed with two fingers . so i didn't try it on new lifter i wonder if anyone did this ? I'm just looking in possibility if this stuck lifter is holding valve partially open causing them to over heat in there seats? i know on older engines if valve adjustment was too tight that was bad for engine , Im still looking into why valve dropping into cylinders . so as everybody else LOL

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:21 pm

Since the cam pins are in the manifold/cam cover, how should the manifold be taken off and still keep the cams from getting out of whack? Should I do the studs and rockers before the belt so that it can continue to keep the cams in alignment?

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:12 pm

Anytime I take the valve cover off I go ahead and take my pins out. It makes reinstalling the valve cover assembly a lot easier because the cams won't want to push any valves down. Once back on you can take the cam gear bolts and rotate each cam until you can get the pins in. With the cam gears off you'll see the indents. Exhaust will be at 3 and intake will be at 9

If any of that made any sense. Lol

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:09 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

Anytime I take the valve cover off I go ahead and take my pins out. It makes reinstalling the valve cover assembly a lot easier because the cams won't want to push any valves down. Once back on you can take the cam gear bolts and rotate each cam until you can get the pins in. With the cam gears off you'll see the indents. Exhaust will be at 3 and intake will be at 9

If any of that made any sense. Lol

Makes sense, thank you. I got down to the timing belt pretty quickly today but was still waiting for the cam tool/pins to come in.

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:37 pm

so you said you not taking cylinder head off for inspection , new updated rockers from ID parts are imported from POLAND (i like them) good so far , i would check them valves or get them replaced with fresh set , i don't know if the new ones are from VM POLAND , or from ITALY , because my machine shop just cleaned everything and change valve guide seals only , this was done back 2 years ago , i wish i replaced them valves , though

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:16 pm

rankom wrote:

so you said you not taking cylinder head off for inspection , new updated rockers from ID parts are imported from POLAND (i like them) good so far , i would check them valves or get them replaced with fresh set , i don't know if the new ones are from VM POLAND , or from ITALY , because my machine shop just cleaned everything and change valve guide seals only , this was done back 2 years ago , i wish i replaced them valves , though

I am not planning on taking the head off, just removing the manifold/valve cover and doing studs and rockers.

I have the TB fully removed and pulled the WP so I guess i am going to do the rockers and studs next. The TB actually looked pretty good as did the water pump.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:19 pm

mass-hole wrote:

rankom wrote:

so you said you not taking cylinder head off for inspection , new updated rockers from ID parts are imported from POLAND (i like them) good so far , i would check them valves or get them replaced with fresh set , i don't know if the new ones are from VM POLAND , or from ITALY , because my machine shop just cleaned everything and change valve guide seals only , this was done back 2 years ago , i wish i replaced them valves , though

I am not planning on taking the head off, just removing the manifold/valve cover and doing studs and rockers.
I have the TB fully removed and pulled the WP so I guess i am going to do the rockers and studs next. The TB actually looked pretty good as did the water pump.

I was planning on doing what you are doing sometime in the near future (studs & rockers), but I would like to make an informed decision on whether or not to pull the head and replace all the exhaust valves at the same time. I certainly wish we had the results of the metallurgy tests that geordi has been trying to provide for us so we all could make the very best possible decision on replacing valves or not! Right now, replacing valves is based on conjecture rather than knowledge due to the fact that a few members have had a valve break; reason at this point is totally unknown unfortunately. :roll:

If I were going into the top end of this engine today, I would probably err on the side of safety since we are uncertain about the root cause of the valve failures that we are aware of, and there may be more that we do not even know about. It may be in the end a case of the lesser of costs when you factor in having to possibly purchase a head, a piston, a piston liner, etc...not even factoring in all the labor that's involved in all the catastrophic possibilities of a valve breaking... Cheap insurance???

Decisions, Decisions!!! :juggle:

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:03 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

rankom wrote:

so you said you not taking cylinder head off for inspection , new updated rockers from ID parts are imported from POLAND (i like them) good so far , i would check them valves or get them replaced with fresh set , i don't know if the new ones are from VM POLAND , or from ITALY , because my machine shop just cleaned everything and change valve guide seals only , this was done back 2 years ago , i wish i replaced them valves , though

I am not planning on taking the head off, just removing the manifold/valve cover and doing studs and rockers.
I have the TB fully removed and pulled the WP so I guess i am going to do the rockers and studs next. The TB actually looked pretty good as did the water pump.

I was planning on doing what you are doing sometime in the near future (studs & rockers), but I would like to make an informed decision on whether or not to pull the head and replace all the exhaust valves at the same time. I certainly wish we had the results of the metallurgy tests that geordi has been trying to provide for us so we all could make the very best possible decision on replacing valves or not! Right now, replacing valves is based on conjecture rather than knowledge due to the fact that a few members have had a valve break; reason at this point is totally unknown unfortunately. :roll:

If I were going into the top end of this engine today, I would probably err on the side of safety since we are uncertain about the root cause of the valve failures that we are aware of, and there may be more that we do not even know about. It may be in the end a case of the lesser of costs when you factor in having to possibly purchase a head, a piston, a piston liner, etc...not even factoring in all the labor that's involved in all the catastrophic possibilities of a valve breaking... Cheap insurance???

Decisions, Decisions!!! :juggle:

Thats the way I'm kinda thinking about it. I've pulled 2 motors now and it's definitely easier and worth the money just to pull the head and put in new valves.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 pm

My rockers felt just like the new ones . . . . . no slop and rolled great.

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:08 pm

mass-hole wrote:

My rockers felt just like the new ones . . . . . no slop and rolled great.

ok , thats good , but did you try separating them from hydraulic lifters ? check if your lifter piston is stuck in upward position , their is a reason why VM upgraded them , their engineers must know something that is maybe holding the valves too tight , and they won't tell us anyway , it makes it more fun for us LOL

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:32 pm

rankom wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

My rockers felt just like the new ones . . . . . no slop and rolled great.

ok , thats good , but did you try separating them from hydraulic lifters ? check if your lifter piston is stuck in upward position , their is a reason why VM upgraded them , their engineers must know something that is maybe holding the valves too tight , and they won't tell us anyway , it makes it more fun for us LOL

Yeah all the lifters were good too.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:56 pm

What are people finding the release torques are for the factory head bolts. I had my torque wrench set to 80 ft-lbs at one point and it wasnt clicking when I was pulling the outer bolts off.

Rocker or not to Rocker

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