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Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86457		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
As some of you who were kind enough to answer some of my questions already might remember, I recently bought an 05 KJ CRD with the understanding that it had some serious engine troubles (slow crank and coolant dripping from muffler :|). After dismantling the engine, I confirmed my suspicion that the cylinders were filled with coolant (now sludge). I was trying to decide whether or not it made more sense to do a complete rebuild of the existing engine or try to find a used one. I understand that there is a good chance that if I bought a used engine, I would want or need to do the rockers/lifters, cams, head gasket and ARP studs anyway unless I was lucky enough to find one local that already had this work performed. I didn't want to buy a used engine without being able to hear it run, which left me with very limited chances of finding anything quickly.

Within a day or so of buying this Jeep, I ended up buying an F350 and decided to put the Jeep project aside until I could recover from that unexpected purchase. I ended up stumbling across a post on another forum from a relatively local man who suffered the unfortunate experience of having his wiring harness torn to shreds by the front drive shaft on his KJ CRD. He ended up spending a small fortune in diagnostic fees at two dealerships trying to get it sorted out and was ultimately told by the dealerships that they couldn't help him and he should consider it totaled. He finally gave up, decided that he didn't want to dump any more money into it and decided to accept offers on it. I made an offer on the Jeep even though I wasn't able to hear it run and ended up buying it after inspecting it and getting a good level of comfort from the owner.

So, now I am the proud owner of two KJ CRD's that don't run. I am trying to determine what makes the most sense as far as how to proceed. Jeep2 (the one with the good motor/bad wiring harness) is in a little better cosmetic shape than Jeep1 (the one with the bad motor). Jeep1 has 150K and Jeep2 has 170K miles. Both are reported to be in good operating condition other than the issues discussed above. The starter does not engage when turning the key, but jumping the connection on the starter motor turns the engine over nicely. No power going to the ECU.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would make more sense to pull the wiring harness from Jeep1 to install on Jeep2 or would I be better off pulling the motor from Jeep2 to install in Jeep1? Attempts have been made by the PO to "fix" the wiring harness. But I wouldn't be comfortable using it even if I was able to get the jeep running with it. I don't know how much work it would be to properly disconnect the wiring harness from all connection points on Jeep1 to install on Jeep2. But my guess is that it would be less time consuming than pulling the motor. I am also thinking that I might be better off finding a used harness somewhere so I can either sell Jeep1 or keep it for future project without stripping it down to a point where it is not worth fixing or selling to someone else that could fix it.

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric
Author:  geordi [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Moving the intact wiring harness from 1 to 2 will not be difficult, just time consuming in following each wire to its conclusion.

There are less connections than you think, and while you will still have to disassemble a few things, it will be a lot less than pulling the entire motor. The harness also has a "memory" that will make putting it back on the other engine easier.

Since Jeep #2 already has a damaged harness, I would start there, working your way down the cable loom that drops behind the alternator and unplugging the things on that, there aren't too many. Then move back up that loom to the next junction and remove each thing as you find it from each branch. Once it is removed from the engine, lay it out on the ground and let the memory help you flatten it out so you can visualize where each connection came from. Open eyelets are the easy ones, those are ground points.

You may also not need to mess with the body harnesses at all, I do not remember if they are linked to the engine harness, but the bulk of the cables run to the TCM and ECM which live on the two fenders.

Good luck.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
I would fix or replace the wiring on one you just bought, a whole lot less work versus having to R&R an engine! :roll:
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Thanks for the input guys. Swapping out the wiring harness makes sense to me. I wasn't sure if there was some level of difficulty with removing the whole harness as one assembly without cutting or damaging anything in the process. I wouldn't want to deal with any electrical gremlins down the road as a result of this.
Author:  rankom [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
i don't know about what you are going to do , but I'm going to tell you one thing , i called my house today , my son answered , he said hey we have more parts for jeep , LOL UPS and FEDEX , great, I will be home soon , get them installed , we need more parts , no mater what happens we love this thing , so collecting more spare parts it just a CRD thing .
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
My :2cents:

The only thing I would be super careful with is the connectors. and the firewall grommets. Soapy water spray helps a lot.
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
rankom wrote:
i don't know about what you are going to do , but I'm going to tell you one thing , i called my house today , my son answered , he said hey we have more parts for jeep , LOL UPS and FEDEX , great, I will be home soon , get them installed , we need more parts , no mater what happens we love this thing , so collecting more spare parts it just a CRD thing .

Ha! I can relate to that. I have a new set of lifters/rockers and a timing belt kit that I bought from ID Parts for the first Jeep. I guess I will keep them around for the inevitable.
I hate the thought of ripping parts off one for the other as they are both complete Jeeps minus the repairs that are needed for each. But the thought of having a whole Jeep for spare parts is also somewhat comforting at the same time.
I would love to get my hands on a wreck that I wouldn't feel badly about pulling from and then fix both of the CRD's that I have now.
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
GordnadoCRD wrote:
My :2cents:

The only thing I would be super careful with is the connectors. and the firewall grommets. Soapy water spray helps a lot.

Thanks for the tip GordnadoCRD. That sounds like good advice which is exactly what I need :D
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
More advice!
Take lots of pictures before removing 1st harness and put plenty of little labels on every connector end/wire and on each corresponding sensor or whatever it was connected to and to where it connects. Number them so you can match them up on the one you are replacing. i.e. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, etc...you get the idea! That way you can always go back and look at doner car and see where each one had been connected or came from.

Why? Once you get both harnesses off both vehicles, you have no references to look back on if you do not have everything labeled.... :roll:

:SOMBRERO:
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Very good advice. Especially if the libbys are different years. If they're the same year model it should be very straightforward. If not, there may be issues with matching things. particularly with things like ABS that changed between years.
Author:  craws010 [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Thanks for all the info and tips guys. Fortunately, the Jeeps are both 2005 models. I hope to have the time to get started on swapping out the wire harnesses in two weeks.
Author:  krb [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Curious what your plans are for the doner once you swap out the harness?

Good luck with the project, hope it is running soon.
Author:  craws010 [ Mon May 01, 2017 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
krb wrote:
Curious what your plans are for the doner once you swap out the harness?

Good luck with the project, hope it is running soon.

Thanks. I am not too sure yet what I plan to do with the other Jeep. I am hoping to find an engine harness to buy so I don't have to pull one from the Jeep.
I would love to get both of them going again so I can retire my VW TDI and use one of the Jeeps for a daily driver.
Then again, I might just sell one as-is too at some point.
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
My friend Doug, and owner of Ferdinand Auto in Marietta, GA, finally found some time to put the Jeep on the lift this weekend. I ended up buying a wiring harness off eBay out of Canada for a very reasonable price. The harness only had one slightly damaged connector which we can swap out from the shredded harness that we removed, if necessary. Once we replaced the harness, the Jeep still wouldn't crank when turning the key. We found that Doug's computer could not read the ECM, which happens to be a brand new unit that the PO had replaced by recommendation from the dealership. We swapped out the ECM from my other CRD and the engine fired right up. It obviously shut down after several seconds, but it sounded good while it was running :D

I sent the new ECM out to Keith at GDE to have it programmed for the vehicle and tuned, as it appears that the dealership never programmed it properly for the PO.

The sad part of this story is that the PO spent thousands of dollars at the dealership trying to get this Jeep fixed after the front shaft destroyed the wiring harness. They finally told him that the Jeep was "totalled" and there was nothing else that could be done. Once on the lift, my friend Doug quickly found that the crank sensor wire was still disconnected on the old harness. If they were competent enough to identify this, the PO could have continued to enjoy his Jeep rather than selling it to me at a huge loss on his part.

We decided to contact the dealership to see if they would program the computer for free, considering their obvious incompetence, and especially considering that the original ECM was probably okay in the first place. The service manager rudely informed that he has a whole new service team since then and wouldn't program the computer for free, and we had to tow the vehicle in.

I am debating on whether or not to contact the PO to let him know or not. On one hand, I think he should be aware that he was done wrong. But on the other hand, it might hurt him more to know how close he was.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
Most stealerships do not have a clue about these vehicles! :furious:
Telling the PO, that's a tough one, would only add salt to his wound so to speak, but he does have a right to know the truth about how bad he got ripped off! :roll:
Did you get the doner vehicle running? Do you know what is supposedly wrong with it? :?:
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
WWDiesel wrote:
Most stealerships do not have a clue about these vehicles! :furious:
Telling the PO, that's a tough one, would only add salt to his wound so to speak, but he does have a right to know the truth about how bad he got ripped off! :roll:
Did you get the doner vehicle running? Do you know what is supposedly wrong with it? :?:


When I sent the head from the first CRD out to get cleaned up they found a crack. Between that and the fact that the coolant sat in the cylinders for so long, I think I would be looking at a complete rebuild on that one. I am trying to decide if I want to sell it as-is, or wait for an opportunity to buy a wreck or a good engine and fix it. I have also considered just keeping it around for parts too.

Did you buy your CRD here in GA? You still like it as much as you did when you first bought it?
I have a WK CRD that I really enjoy. But there is something about the KJ that I find appealing.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
craws010 wrote:
Did you buy your CRD here in GA? You still like it as much as you did when you first bought it?
I have a WK CRD that I really enjoy. But there is something about the KJ that I find appealing.

I like it even better than when I first got it!!!

Yes, bought it here in central GA from a dealer friend back in 13. It had 129k on it, one owner who traded it in on a new Nissan. It was in good shape other than needing a timing belt replacement, tires, shocks, springs, 1 window regulator, boost hoses, in-tank fuel pump, fuel filters, battery, front speakers, etc.
After replacing all the above, and adding a Weeks elbow kit, getting rid of all the EGR crap, getting rid of the CAT, a performance tune, new Suncoast torque converter and adding a bunch of accessories to it, it has turned out to be a great little vehicle. I love to drive it and had rather go places in it than my wife's 15 Pathfinder... :roll:
Author:  craws010 [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
WWDiesel wrote:
craws010 wrote:
Yes, bought it here in central GA from a dealer friend back in 13. It had 129k on it, one owner who traded it in on a new Nissan. It was in good shape other than needing a timing belt replacement, tires, shocks, springs, 1 window regulator, boost hoses, in-tank fuel pump, fuel filters, battery, front speakers, etc.
After replacing all the above, and adding a Weeks elbow kit, getting rid of all the EGR crap, getting rid of the CAT, a performance tune, new Suncoast torque converter and adding a bunch of accessories to it, it has turned out to be a great little vehicle. I love to drive it and had rather go places in it than my wife's 15 Pathfinder... :roll:


I am glad you still enjoy it. I really like the way the white looks. I would prefer white over the black and khaki colors that I have.
I noticed that you didn't mention rockers in your list of repairs/replacement parts. That is encouraging to know that you have not had any issues with them yet. I had actually bought new rockers/lifters and a complete timing belt kit for the first one I bought before I knew the head was cracked.
The PO of the second one had the timing belt and associated components replaced about 9K before I bought it. He also gave me a brand new stage 1 and 2 Weeks kit that he had not yet installed, along with the Samco intercooler hoses. I am glad I at least have those items already. I am expecting the torque converter replacement to hit me at some point.

You have not had to replace your turbo yet either? That's awesome!
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
craws010 wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Yes, bought it here in central GA from a dealer friend back in 13. It had 129k on it, one owner who traded it in on a new Nissan. It was in good shape other than needing a timing belt replacement, tires, shocks, springs, 1 window regulator, boost hoses, in-tank fuel pump, fuel filters, battery, front speakers, etc.
After replacing all the above, and adding a Weeks elbow kit, getting rid of all the EGR crap, getting rid of the CAT, a performance tune, new Suncoast torque converter and adding a bunch of accessories to it, it has turned out to be a great little vehicle. I love to drive it and had rather go places in it than my wife's 15 Pathfinder... :roll:


I am glad you still enjoy it. I really like the way the white looks. I would prefer white over the black and khaki colors that I have. You don't have to wash it as often!
I noticed that you didn't mention rockers in your list of repairs/replacement parts. That is encouraging to know that you have not had any issues with them yet. I had actually bought new rockers/lifters and a complete timing belt kit for the first one I bought before I knew the head was cracked.
The PO of the second one had the timing belt and associated components replaced about 9K before I bought it. He also gave me a brand new stage 1 and 2 Weeks kit that he had not yet installed, along with the Samco intercooler hoses. I am glad I at least have those items already. I am expecting the torque converter replacement to hit me at some point.

You have not had to replace your turbo yet either? That's awesome!

The life of these items depends very strongly on what oil they operate with. Whatever you use, make sure, ON THE CONTAINER, that it meets minimum Chrysler MS spec OR BETTER for the weight you are using. These are in your owner's manual.
Also, ... and this is very important... that it is RATED SPECIFICALLY FOR DIESEL ENGINES.
Super duper miracle oil for turbocharged late model gasoline/flex-fuel engines, if used in diesel engines, WILL cause premature wear because it cannot contain the carbon (soot) load. It falls out of suspension, and becomes a very fine abrasive polishing compound. A gasoline engine does not need so much of that. It's primary bad stuff function is to suspend solvent load. Diesel engines don't need so much of that. There are some oils that are made for both. Just make sure, whatever you use, that it is RATED SPECIFICALLY FOR DIESEL ENGINES.
Author:  Bushman5 [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bought another KJ CRD rather than a used engine
saaaay, what does the turbo look like on the donor engine? :wink: :D
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