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Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86677		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mungewell [ Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Hi all,
Wife's 2006 CRD is giving us grief; it seems randomly that it will not restart after a shortish stop (15min to 1hr). Engine cranks OK, just does not start. When it does start, seems to be running OK and able to do long trips. CEL with ERG flow and ERG valve codes.

Observations:
1). Problem seems to clear after some time. 1st and 2nd, walked up to CRD the next day and it started right away. 3rd, after the hour it took me to walk home(!!) my wife was able to restart - although note I had bleed and re-primed fuel filter before leaving.
2). At least on 3rd, while attempting to start/crank the Tacho blips up to ~100rpm and traction light lit briefly after cranking. Don't know if this is normal, or shows the ECU rebooting.
3). As noted above. Some air in fuel filter. Re-priming/bleeding did not fix immediately. Once primed and run, I assume you loose some pressure here (ie priming button feels 'loose').

Attempts to fix:
1). Replaced battery - had 'old' since we've had CRD, about 5 years, so probably time. Confirmed that old/new battery was/is charging OK. Thought it might be the 'low voltage freaks out ECU' problem. Had 3rd failure start since.
2). Replaced fuel filter (after the 3rd 'no start' at the weekend). Couldn't see any cracks on the primer head which I believe have been mentioned here before.


Suggestions:
1). Fuel filter head - where do these crack/fail?
2). Crankshaft position sensor - need to assess/check this...

Any other suggestions of things to look for or try. Since it's intermittent and self curing I think the stealership would love to charge me to say "no problem found" :-(

Thanks in advance,
Simon
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Change out the crank sensor.

And check for air in fuel.
Author:  thermorex [ Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
flash7210 wrote:
Change out the crank sensor.

And check for air in fuel.

What Flash said. Crank sensor is under the turbo on the engine block. You may find one at Autozone but I'd buy a mopar one.
Author:  apardo001 [ Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
If persists, check the wiring harness around the fuel filter head. I've had a lot of weird problems due to broken wires and loose or dirty connectors.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Crank sensor is 5066882AA or Bosch 0281002434 also apparently Standard Motor Products PC766 or Airtex 5S7000. Go to viewtopic.php?f=98&t=74594 and take a look at images 7-9 for where it's located. Might be more easily removed from underneath as coming in from above may involve removing a few things for access but I'm not sure about that.

Once off the vehicle check the resistance on the old unit; if bad resistance will go nuts if you heat the sensor with like a hair dryer. FYI a bad sensor will not throw a code or a CEL and will cause no start or random no start particularly on a hot engine but will start fine when engine cools a bit.
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
papaindigo wrote:
Crank sensor is 5066882AA or Bosch 0281002434 also apparently Standard Motor Products PC766 or Airtex 5S7000. Go to viewtopic.php?f=98&t=74594 and take a look at images 7-9 for where it's located. Might be more easily removed from underneath as coming in from above may involve removing a few things for access but I'm not sure about that.

Once off the vehicle check the resistance on the old unit; if bad resistance will go nuts if you heat the sensor with like a hair dryer. FYI a bad sensor will not throw a code or a CEL and will cause no start or random no start particularly on a hot engine but will start fine when engine cools a bit.

The forum wiki papaindigo is back! Glad you didn't forget us. How's that honda pickup treating you?
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
2017 Honda Ridgeline is treating me fine. Glad I got the RTL midline model rather than stepping up to a fancier model with more electronic bells and whistles like GPS, lane keeping, semi-automatic braking as the learning curve on the controls is a bit steep. Not sure the current vehicle design fad to replace something like an easy to find and adjust knob for fan speed with up and down buttons that one has to look for is particularly bright. Overall though very happy. Drove ca. 2,600 miles Tallahassee, FL-Kearney, NE to visit my son carrying a bunch of stuff that would not have fit in the CRD (dining table). It rides fine and gets the EPA rated mpg plus a hair; about the same as a CRD without the GDE EcoTune.

Still keeping an eye on LOST and the CRD Facebook page but not as active as in the past.
Author:  thermorex [ Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Cool. The Ridgeline is an interesting pickup. I one would not get something like it, at least not soon, but I like how they thought it. Feels like a medium size SUV plus the pickup convenience. Probably less things to worry compared to crd. Enjoy your ride!
Author:  mungewell [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Time for an update... "Air in Fuel" was definitely a problem, I spent a while monitoring (read bleeding the fuel system before EVERY start) and even with this I got a non-start at the grocery store last week and at home over the weekend - actually when I was about to move the vehicle into garage to replace fuel filter head (cost C$220), which I have now done.

Previously had the 'old design' (with the same size connector for heater). Got the replacement cable but no instructions; is there a polarity to the wires, or can I just splice them in? Anyone got a work instruction doc?

Tried to locate the Crank Position Sensor (cost C$120ish), but didn't... How do you get the Air Filter Box off the vehicle? Might make access/lighting the area easier.
Cheers,
Simon.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
The only connector that needs to be replaced is for the fuel heater.
The new new connector should have a blue piece on it.
Polarity doesn't matter. Just splice it in.

Crank sensor is in the block, next to the exhaust down pipe, kinda up against the bell housing, behind a aluminum heat shield.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
mungewell wrote:
Time for an update... "Air in Fuel" was definitely a problem, I spent a while monitoring (read bleeding the fuel system before EVERY start) and even with this I got a non-start at the grocery store last week and at home over the weekend - actually when I was about to move the vehicle into garage to replace fuel filter head (cost C$220), which I have now done.
Previously had the 'old design' (with the same size connector for heater). Got the replacement cable but no instructions; is there a polarity to the wires, or can I just splice them in? Anyone got a work instruction doc?
Tried to locate the Crank Position Sensor (cost C$120ish), but didn't... How do you get the Air Filter Box off the vehicle? Might make access/lighting the area easier.
Cheers,Simon.

If you are having "air in fuel" problems, please consider adding an in tank lift pump as many on this forum have done. There is plenty of information and reading on this forum on how to install one!
These two links below will answer any questions concerning installing an in-tank lift pump and / or wiring it up properly.
http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/
viewtopic.php?t=26385&highlight=

As to the air filter box, it simply has to be prided out of three rubber grommets that are on the bottom of the rear box half.

The crank sensor is accessed from the bottom of the engine and can be changed from underneath! :wink:

This is a picture that shows the location of the CPS on the side of the block:

Image
Author:  greiswig [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Still love this forum. I started having the same symptoms intermittently, making it impossible to track down the source. Until I log in here and do a search, and voila!

Replaced my Crank Angle Sensor, and I'm back to reliable. Thanks, y'all!
Author:  TKB4 [ Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
I had one do same thing but more often till crank sensor replaced.
Author:  mungewell [ Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Another little update - I changed the Crank Sensor on the weekend, a PITA but doable with vehicle on it's wheels. That said I chose to remove the passenger front wheel to get a little more elbow room and try to improve sight lines up to bits.

If you're wondering where the sensor is, it's under the 'crinkly' heat shield next the to turbo down pipe. Just enough space to get one hand up there, you'll want to do this on a cold engine! I guessing the location is the reason why these sensors are failing, heat is not good for electronics and would shorten their life.

IIRC there are 10mm bolts on heat shield, 8mm bolt on connector bracket and 5mm allen on sensor. Glad I had an air ratchet to free up the heat shield bolts.

Anyhow, approximately 10 successful starts so far and hoping that my troubles are far behind me. Thanks to all for their help,
Simon.

PS. Will ponder doing the lift pump another day.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Link to location pictures is in one of my posts above.
Author:  mungewell [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: Random No Starts - 3x in 3 weeks.
Always like to come back with a positive update.... no problems since the sensor was swapped out.

Also noted a comment in one of SMA's videos. The dealer tools have the ability to detect the 'sync' of the crank-shaft to cam-shaft sensors. So maybe it wouldn't actually take the stealership to long to track down this problem. Maybe it would even show up with some cheaper tools... can you monitor that PID?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkmdRcw ... u.be&t=199

Cheers,
Simon.
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