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Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine died.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86889		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KyleDriver [ Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine died.
I replaced my timing belt today along with water pump, idler pulleys, and tensioner. Starting it up and it ran fine after I got it all back together. Drove fine for the first 5 miles until I got on the hi-way, then it lost power. I limped it off the hi-way and the engine was running really rough with zero power until I came to a stop and it died.

What did I screw up and how bad is the screw up? Are my rockers toast? What could have caused the loss of power and rough running motor?

Any help is truly appreciated as this is my only vehicle.
Author:  Big Wrench [ Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Kinda odd it quit right after the timing belt job. I go over the timing and see if it all lines up, if that's good check for codes and fuel pressure.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Either:

A. You didnt properly torque the sprockets and they slipped on the cams.
B. The tensioner lost tension and allowed the belt to slip a few teeth.
C. Its something totally unrelated to the timing belt and you should scan for codes.
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
flash7210 wrote:
Either:

A. You didnt properly torque the sprockets and they slipped on the cams.
B. The tensioner lost tension and allowed the belt to slip a few teeth.
C. Its something totally unrelated to the timing belt and you should scan for codes.


If it is either A or B then what are my options? I torqued the sprocket bolts to 80 ft. lbs.
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
The fact that the cams/sprokets arent keyed is extremely dumb. I'd pay a lot of money for key sprokets from one of our vendors here if I keep this thing long enough to do another belt job :wink:
Author:  Dez [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Are there any other engines with the same keyless cam setup? I don't see the benefit.
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Well, I took it back apart inspected the timing belt and it looked like the crank shaft was off one tooth. Retimed it and started it up and it does not sound good. Just ran it for a few second to check it. Sounds like there is engine damage and I messed up big time.

What is this thing worth as-is? What is an estimate for a shop to replace rockers? It's a 2006 with 104,000 miles.
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
If you can do your own timing belt, you can replace your own rocker arms.

After you get the inner timing cover off:
1. Start disconnecting the wiring harness on top and label the connections
2. Remove the intake elbow and EGR pipe
3. Remove the fuel rail
4. Remove and label the injectors (probably the toughest part)
5. Unbolt and remove the intake manifold

This would also be a good time to disable, block off, or delete the EGR
Author:  APC9199 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
KyleDriver wrote:
Well, I took it back apart inspected the timing belt and it looked like the crank shaft was off one tooth. Retimed it and started it up and it does not sound good. Just ran it for a few second to check it. Sounds like there is engine damage and I messed up big time.

What is this thing worth as-is? What is an estimate for a shop to replace rockers? It's a 2006 with 104,000 miles.


I don't know what "does not sound good" means, but you've either blown up the rockers (hopefully) or bent/broke a valve. When it was running was it stuttering and having trouble staying alive or did it sound like bolts in a steel coffee can rattling around?

Take the time to tear it down at least to the top of the head and inspect the rockers. You can do a rough check of the valve alignment at this point with a good straight edge to see if they are obviously bent or not. If they are, you need to decide if you want to take the head off and inspect further. I really hope it just popped the rockers off, that is a fairly easy fix although kind of pricey to replace them.
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
APC9199 wrote:
KyleDriver wrote:
Well, I took it back apart inspected the timing belt and it looked like the crank shaft was off one tooth. Retimed it and started it up and it does not sound good. Just ran it for a few second to check it. Sounds like there is engine damage and I messed up big time.

What is this thing worth as-is? What is an estimate for a shop to replace rockers? It's a 2006 with 104,000 miles.


I don't know what "does not sound good" means, but you've either blown up the rockers (hopefully) or bent/broke a valve. When it was running was it stuttering and having trouble staying alive or did it sound like bolts in a steel coffee can rattling around?

Take the time to tear it down at least to the top of the head and inspect the rockers. You can do a rough check of the valve alignment at this point with a good straight edge to see if they are obviously bent or not. If they are, you need to decide if you want to take the head off and inspect further. I really hope it just popped the rockers off, that is a fairly easy fix although kind of pricey to replace them.


When I limped it off the hi way I did not hear any metallic clanging in the motor before it died. It was just running rough. When I took the belt back off after that to re-time it, the cam sprockets were very "springy", like they sprung to an indented position forward or backward, they did not rotate smoothly. I started it up for a couple seconds after re-timing and then it sounded like bolts in a steel coffee can. I immediately shut the motor off then. It looks like I will have to take the head off and inspect.

If it is just the rockers, do I just remove the old ones and replace with new ones? What is the procedure for that?
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Time the cams to sign (where you can insert the locking pins), time the engine properly, reinstall the timing belt and turn the engine by hand from crank, keeping in mind you'll have resistance from compression. If you can turn it couple times, it's properly timed. Inspect tensioner and retension if necessary. Then start the engine and see how it behaves. You may need to change the rockers and lifters if damaged, but you'll notice when you start if there is an issue.
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Yes if you did the timing job on your own then the rockers are no problem it just takes a little longer to get to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
mass-hole wrote:
Yes if you did the timing job on your own then the rockers are no problem it just takes a little longer to get to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do I keep timing if I remove the valve cover, which has the threaded holes for the timing pins?
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
Does anyone know of a rocker repair guide? Otherwise I'm going at this without knowing what I'm doing.
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine died.
KyleDriver wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
Yes if you did the timing job on your own then the rockers are no problem it just takes a little longer to get to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do I keep timing if I remove the valve cover, which has the threaded holes for the timing pins?


The cams come off with the manifold so it's ok if they fall out of time. When you put the manifold back on and get it bolted down then you reinstall the locking pins and the cams will be back where they need to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  rankom [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
where are you located, maybe someone in the area can help
Author:  KyleDriver [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
rankom wrote:
where are you located, maybe someone in the area can help


Neenah, WI. I am trying to find someone to help out. I'll admit that I am in over my head with this.
Author:  Irocelectric93 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
The rockers themselves just basically sit in place. If you need new ones just get some from ID parts and I'd soak them overnight in oil. They just go back in the way they came out but it can be kind of tricky getting the cams and valve cover combo back on without knocking one out of place. One step at a time though.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
mass-hole wrote:
KyleDriver wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
Yes if you did the timing job on your own then the rockers are no problem it just takes a little longer to get to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do I keep timing if I remove the valve cover, which has the threaded holes for the timing pins?


The cams come off with the manifold so it's ok if they fall out of time. When you put the manifold back on and get it bolted down then you reinstall the locking pins and the cams will be back where they need to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can keep the cams pinned while the manifold is removed.

The rockers pretty much just float on top of the valve stems and lash adjuster.
The rocker and lash adjuster should come out as one piece although they sometimes do break or separate.
Once you get the intake manifold lifted off you will see and its pretty self explanatory.
If you have a broken valve, one of the valve springs will be taller than the others.
Before you put the manifold back on, get two long bolts the same thread size as the manifold bolts. Cut the heads off and use them as guide pins.
Slowly and gently place the manifold back on so you dont knock a rocker out of position.
Author:  jws84_02 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please Help. Replaced timing belt, lost power, engine di
I sent a pm kyledriver
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