LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Torque Converter Options (again)

If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

thermorex wrote:

If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

I get the quality difference, but is it REALLY worth 4 TIMES the cost? If a $200 unit does for me what the $850 unit will do for even a few more years (come on, the OEM unit has lasted over 10 years with an improper stall speed). I just don't see how its worth it.

thermorex wrote:

If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

APC9199 wrote:

thermorex wrote:

If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

This. I don't know if I need a billet converter for my super fast Jeep Liberty.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

Depends on your expectations. If the jeep is a vehicle you'll keep for some time, then yes, pay premium and have 1st class seats. You can also travel coach, but it won't be as comfortable. And if you travel coach a long way, you'll feel tired. If that quality doesn't matter that much, then I agree, get something that works and makes you happy. Traveling "first class" is not always feasible, so for many people a Suncoast isn't worth. I didn't plan and don't plan selling the jeep soon, so for me it was worth the price and reliability of the Suncoast. Suncoast is rated 600lbs/ft of torque, and it's not made for power/fast Jeeps, but for torque Jeeps.

So once again, if the HEMI-TC seems to be sufficient for 90% or more of the people who have installed them, how am I to justify 4 times the price, or more, for the Suncoast? Is there any information other than the "low stall" listed on FTC's website? Any torque ratings? Is the Suncoast is 600ftlb and the HEMI is only marginally lower, then the choice seems pretty clear to me, unless the HEMI has durability issues. My OEM TC has been doing a light shudder for years and is still going strong, can the HEMI really be worse considering it is actually built to withstand the amount of torque we are throwing at it?

I understand that the best is the best, but I don't understand why everyone seems to push so hard for the $850 option when the $175 option appears to work fine. Why buy a Cadillac to commute to work when a Jeep will do for 1/4 the cost?

APC9199 wrote:

Yes I agree, it can be very frustrating at times to try and justify some of the much higher cost parts for this vehicle! Sort of like paying ~$500 for a custom thermostat, but if you want the very best as many have succumbed to on certain numerous troublesome items with bad track records.

As the old adage goes, you get what you pay for!
If you can get by with a cheaper part and you are not overly concerned with a short lifespan, early failure, or detrimental consequences to ancillary equipment, go for it. :roll:

Ultimately the choice is yours and yours alone and should be based on your needs, current available information, and by reviewing feedback or advice from others who have experienced problems or issues in the area or areas of your concern...

Best of luck on whatever you choose
:5SHOTS:

I can't blame you or somebody else for not being thrilled when it's time to spend a small fortune for a vehicle that's 11-12 years old. It's the opposite, I think it's a smart decision, financially, to buy a cheaper but reliable part. Unless you really like the jeep and plan to keep it more. All I wanted to highlight, and I'm sure wwdiesel had the same intentions, was to give you an opinion, based on our experiences. The choice is obviously yours, we have out Suncoast tc already and that doesn't give us any special status.

Yes but our jeeps make less torque than a Hemi, even on a Hot tune, in a lighter chassis than a Ram. So sure, its great having a 600 ft-lb rating, but it seems very far from necessary. I have a stock converter with my tune turned up to 400 ft-lbs and get very minor shudder at this point. And thats with the GDE Eco trans tune which likes to lug the crap out of it.

mass-hole wrote:

Not to argue, but I also have a stock original TC in a stock original trans, with a stock tune (to the best of my knowledge) At any RPM over 1800, and with 2 packets of Dr Tranny's Anti Shudder stuff, and less than 1500 miles on a full tranny service and new filters, It easily reduces the stock TC clutch to a quivering jello pudding if I apply over about 60% go-pedal.

2010 Dodge Ram Hemi 1500 Quad Cab 5.7L SCT Dyno Run Made 285 RWHP and 301 RWTQ and this is with Header-back exhaust upgrade.

VMM R428 easily makes more torque than this, even with Eco-Tune when backed by a TC that can hold it.

In stock form, even the 2015 5Ram 1500 EcoDiesel made a maximum of 215 hp and 367 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels (Banks Engineering) Barely matching the R428 torque, WITH GDE HOT tune. Now, the fact that the Liberty is a much lighter vehicle, could help make a EURO converter clutch live, but throw a trailer behind it, loaded for a week's hunting trip, and you'll be wishing you spent the extra dough for a 5.7 Hemi TC, or better.

Regarding the 5.7 Hemi TC clutch, I have no ACTUAL proof of numbers, but the number I've heard tossed around the Dodge camp is 500 lbs-ft stock. I personally think this may be a bit optimistic, but they don't seem to have trouble with it, even with turbo, NOx, or other power adders.

Edited for clarity and detail

Author:	APC9199 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Torque Converter Options (again)
I think we should write a sticky with information on the major replacement parts that many users like me keep asking about. It could save us writing all these posts asking for the same information over and over, since we can't search for anything on this forum and actually find what we want! Does this look like a viable torque converter option for our transmission? I want to start getting the parts together to do the TC, shift kit, solenoid and front pump, but choosing a TC always eludes me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/545RFE-45RFE-JE ... Ho&vxp=mtr If that does not look good, can anyone make a recommendation? I know SunCoast and Florida Torque Converters make bulletproof options for us, but they are overkill for me and cost way more than I can justify. I just want to get rid of my shudder when I accelerate going up hills. I'm not towing 5000# trailers every other day or anything... What do you guys think?

Author:	flash7210 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
Looks like it will work. Dont know if anybody has tried it though. A few here have been happy with Florida Torque Converter

Author:	APC9199 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
That would be THIS one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-JEEP-45RF ... 3T&vxp=mtr Anyone want to weigh in on their experience with this unit? I am using the stage1 DIY tune and may decide to go to stage2 if this will handle it, but it isn't necessary.

Author:	thermorex [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny.

Author:	APC9199 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
thermorex wrote: If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny. I get the quality difference, but is it REALLY worth 4 TIMES the cost? If a $200 unit does for me what the $850 unit will do for even a few more years (come on, the OEM unit has lasted over 10 years with an improper stall speed). I just don't see how its worth it.

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Author:	mass-hole [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
APC9199 wrote: thermorex wrote: If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny. I get the quality difference, but is it REALLY worth 4 TIMES the cost? If a $200 unit does for me what the $850 unit will do for even a few more years (come on, the OEM unit has lasted over 10 years with an improper stall speed). I just don't see how its worth it. This. I don't know if I need a billet converter for my super fast Jeep Liberty. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	thermorex [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
APC9199 wrote: thermorex wrote: If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny. I get the quality difference, but is it REALLY worth 4 TIMES the cost? If a $200 unit does for me what the $850 unit will do for even a few more years (come on, the OEM unit has lasted over 10 years with an improper stall speed). I just don't see how its worth it. mass-hole wrote: APC9199 wrote: thermorex wrote: If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny. I get the quality difference, but is it REALLY worth 4 TIMES the cost? If a $200 unit does for me what the $850 unit will do for even a few more years (come on, the OEM unit has lasted over 10 years with an improper stall speed). I just don't see how its worth it. This. I don't know if I need a billet converter for my super fast Jeep Liberty. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Depends on your expectations. If the jeep is a vehicle you'll keep for some time, then yes, pay premium and have 1st class seats. You can also travel coach, but it won't be as comfortable. And if you travel coach a long way, you'll feel tired. If that quality doesn't matter that much, then I agree, get something that works and makes you happy. Traveling "first class" is not always feasible, so for many people a Suncoast isn't worth. I didn't plan and don't plan selling the jeep soon, so for me it was worth the price and reliability of the Suncoast. Suncoast is rated 600lbs/ft of torque, and it's not made for power/fast Jeeps, but for torque Jeeps.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
thermorex wrote: If you plan in keeping your crd for few more years and few tens of thousands of miles, get the Suncoast tc. Worth every penny. Thermorex's post is such an absolute true statement! Let me try and put it in perspective: What if you purchase the cheaper brand X TC and pay a transmission shop to install it along with all the other goodies and a year or two down the road you decide to up the power a little bit with a mild tune or it just starts slipping with age again. Then the TC starts slipping and doing the dreaded shudder in lockup on hills? You will be saying to yourself, dang I wish I had went ahead and spent the money and got the SunCoast TC or a least one of the Hemi TC's. Now you are faced with purchasing another much better TC and paying to have it installed for the second time! All that money on the first TC and labor to install wasted... I speak from experience, not on my Jeep as I went with the SunCoast on it with no hesitation, but on my Dodge Cummins which I first purchased a TCI TC which was much cheaper than the Suncoast TC and it only lasted a little over a year before it started slipping and chattering in lockup. All that money down the drain and a valuable learning experience to boot! So I bit the bullet so to speak and bought the Suncoast TC for the Dodge Cummins and payed again to have it installed and it has held everything I could throw at it with a a 40 psig boost Cummins pulling a 10k+ load! And you think the SunCoast is expensive for the Jeep, think again, the SunCoast for my Dodge Cummings was a little over $1800 in the box and then I still had to pay my transmission shop friend to install it. So when it came time to purchase a TC for the Jeep, it was a no brainer decision...SunCoast! Don't make a high dollar mistake that you will be sorry for later!

Author:	flash7210 [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
If you frequently tow a trailer through hilly/mountainous terrain, then you will definitely want the suncoast. I had my torque converter replaced in 2007 at about 35k miles as part of the f37 recall. I dont know exactly what TC was installed then, but Im over 200k miles now on that same TC. I dont tow. I rarely drive through mountains. Yes, I have a hot tune. Yes, I sometimes get shudder when accelerating in 5th gear. But if I lift the throttle slightly, the shudder stops. I have a Hemi TC in my garage waiting to be installed but I just havent found the motivation to go through the work of removing the transmission.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
Beware the ones advertised on EBAY such as the one you linked. Even though it will fit, the TCs from 3.7 and 4.7 are different than the ones behind 5.7. The 5.9 is a completely different animal, and will NOT fit. The 2.8 is different even yet, and proven to be insufficient for a 2.8. If price trumps the risk factor of used parts, you might as well shop Craigslist. Things like this https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/d/good-used-recently-rebuilt/6199480317.html There's a used 5.7 hemi converter in Portland OR for $50 obo, but it comes with 200k miles of unknown history. If you play with your search parameters sometimes you can find such things. If you want a new blueprinted Hemi TC, you can't beat Florida torque converter. 13-37 https://www.amazon.com/Florida-Torque-Converter-13-37-CHRYSLER/dp/B00ZGU4HEO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1500532287&sr=8-7&keywords=Florida+Torque+Converter If you want the best, Suncoast is the top rated one but they do not stand alone. Florida Torque Converter's 13-37S/D is their best, and you have to call them for price. http://www.floridatorqueconverters.com/Chrysler-Torque-Converter-13-37-S-D.html American Racing Solutions Torqueconvertershop swears their #45B billet offering is better than the Suncoast due to clutch area and use of kevlar clutch lining. http://www.torqueconvertershop.com/45B%20Performance%20545RFE%20Billet%20torque%20converter%2045RFE.htm At this juncture, we have options available. There will come a point where good parts won't be so readily available.

Author:	mass-hole [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
thermorex wrote: Depends on your expectations. If the jeep is a vehicle you'll keep for some time, then yes, pay premium and have 1st class seats. You can also travel coach, but it won't be as comfortable. And if you travel coach a long way, you'll feel tired. If that quality doesn't matter that much, then I agree, get something that works and makes you happy. Traveling "first class" is not always feasible, so for many people a Suncoast isn't worth. I didn't plan and don't plan selling the jeep soon, so for me it was worth the price and reliability of the Suncoast. Suncoast is rated 600lbs/ft of torque, and it's not made for power/fast Jeeps, but for torque Jeeps. Yes but our jeeps make less torque than a Hemi, even on a Hot tune, in a lighter chassis than a Ram. So sure, its great having a 600 ft-lb rating, but it seems very far from necessary. I have a stock converter with my tune turned up to 400 ft-lbs and get very minor shudder at this point. And thats with the GDE Eco trans tune which likes to lug the crap out of it.

Author:	APC9199 [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
So once again, if the HEMI-TC seems to be sufficient for 90% or more of the people who have installed them, how am I to justify 4 times the price, or more, for the Suncoast? Is there any information other than the "low stall" listed on FTC's website? Any torque ratings? Is the Suncoast is 600ftlb and the HEMI is only marginally lower, then the choice seems pretty clear to me, unless the HEMI has durability issues. My OEM TC has been doing a light shudder for years and is still going strong, can the HEMI really be worse considering it is actually built to withstand the amount of torque we are throwing at it? I understand that the best is the best, but I don't understand why everyone seems to push so hard for the $850 option when the $175 option appears to work fine. Why buy a Cadillac to commute to work when a Jeep will do for 1/4 the cost?

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
APC9199 wrote: So once again, if the HEMI-TC seems to be sufficient for 90% or more of the people who have installed them, how am I to justify 4 times the price, or more, for the Suncoast? Is there any information other than the "low stall" listed on FTC's website? Any torque ratings? Is the Suncoast is 600ftlb and the HEMI is only marginally lower, then the choice seems pretty clear to me, unless the HEMI has durability issues. My OEM TC has been doing a light shudder for years and is still going strong, can the HEMI really be worse considering it is actually built to withstand the amount of torque we are throwing at it? I understand that the best is the best, but I don't understand why everyone seems to push so hard for the $850 option when the $175 option appears to work fine. Why buy a Cadillac to commute to work when a Jeep will do for 1/4 the cost? Yes I agree, it can be very frustrating at times to try and justify some of the much higher cost parts for this vehicle! Sort of like paying ~$500 for a custom thermostat, but if you want the very best as many have succumbed to on certain numerous troublesome items with bad track records. As the old adage goes, you get what you pay for! If you can get by with a cheaper part and you are not overly concerned with a short lifespan, early failure, or detrimental consequences to ancillary equipment, go for it. Ultimately the choice is yours and yours alone and should be based on your needs, current available information, and by reviewing feedback or advice from others who have experienced problems or issues in the area or areas of your concern... Best of luck on whatever you choose

Author:	APC9199 [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
WWDiesel wrote: APC9199 wrote: So once again, if the HEMI-TC seems to be sufficient for 90% or more of the people who have installed them, how am I to justify 4 times the price, or more, for the Suncoast? Is there any information other than the "low stall" listed on FTC's website? Any torque ratings? Is the Suncoast is 600ftlb and the HEMI is only marginally lower, then the choice seems pretty clear to me, unless the HEMI has durability issues. My OEM TC has been doing a light shudder for years and is still going strong, can the HEMI really be worse considering it is actually built to withstand the amount of torque we are throwing at it? I understand that the best is the best, but I don't understand why everyone seems to push so hard for the $850 option when the $175 option appears to work fine. Why buy a Cadillac to commute to work when a Jeep will do for 1/4 the cost? Yes I agree, it can be very frustrating at times to try and justify some of the much higher cost parts for this vehicle! Sort of like paying ~$500 for a custom thermostat, but if you want the very best as many have succumbed to on certain numerous troublesome items with bad track records. As the old adage goes, you get what you pay for! If you can get by with a cheaper part and you are not overly concerned with a short lifespan, early failure, or detrimental consequences to ancillary equipment, go for it. Ultimately the choice is yours and yours alone and should be based on your needs, current available information, and by reviewing feedback or advice from others who have experienced problems or issues in the area or areas of your concern... Best of luck on whatever you choose Is this a problem though? Has anyone actually had a problem with any of the alternatives to the Suncoast? I know some of the original "Euro" TC's still had shudder issues even with the F37 and stage1 DIY tunes, but they were a bandaid, at best. I realize that no one has probably been running the HEMI TC for more than a year at this point. It can't possibly be less reliable than the OEM, though! Usually I don't need convincing to buy the best of the best but the arguments that have been presented in favor of the Suncoast do not add up for me. I need more evidence that the HEMI TC is NOT a viable option. Hopefully I do not become that evidence!

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Author:	thermorex [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
APC9199 wrote: So once again, if the HEMI-TC seems to be sufficient for 90% or more of the people who have installed them, how am I to justify 4 times the price, or more, for the Suncoast? Is there any information other than the "low stall" listed on FTC's website? Any torque ratings? Is the Suncoast is 600ftlb and the HEMI is only marginally lower, then the choice seems pretty clear to me, unless the HEMI has durability issues. My OEM TC has been doing a light shudder for years and is still going strong, can the HEMI really be worse considering it is actually built to withstand the amount of torque we are throwing at it? I understand that the best is the best, but I don't understand why everyone seems to push so hard for the $850 option when the $175 option appears to work fine. Why buy a Cadillac to commute to work when a Jeep will do for 1/4 the cost? Think this way. I wanted to get a tc that would be very good, reliable and also give me the peace of mind. I chose Suncoast,based on their good name. You may find another brand or part that can be more or less good for your purpose. It looks like the hemi tc is one of those. But it is always a bit of risk getting a hemi tc made by some company than getting a Suncoast that builds them for racing conditions, which equates very tough. When I got mine, there weren't too many options. I believe I paid somewhere like 6-800 years ago, when about 300-ish was the price for the updated one. The "feel" of Suncoast vs stock, side shudder, is that when you start moving, you have the feel you start with a big rig, not a jeep. I can't blame you or somebody else for not being thrilled when it's time to spend a small fortune for a vehicle that's 11-12 years old. It's the opposite, I think it's a smart decision, financially, to buy a cheaper but reliable part. Unless you really like the jeep and plan to keep it more. All I wanted to highlight, and I'm sure wwdiesel had the same intentions, was to give you an opinion, based on our experiences. The choice is obviously yours, we have out Suncoast tc already and that doesn't give us any special status.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
thermorex wrote: I can't blame you or somebody else for not being thrilled when it's time to spend a small fortune for a vehicle that's 11-12 years old. It's the opposite, I think it's a smart decision, financially, to buy a cheaper but reliable part. Unless you really like the jeep and plan to keep it more. All I wanted to highlight, and I'm sure wwdiesel had the same intentions, was to give you an opinion, based on our experiences. The choice is obviously yours, we have out Suncoast tc already and that doesn't give us any special status. So very true thermorex! Being I have never had a Hemi TC it is very hard for me to give any real meaningful feedback or comment very much on them. I can only give advice on having to deal with a Dodge Cummins and a Jeep CRD both of which got the SunCoast TC's. I do know that there are quite a few on this forum who have installed the SunCoast and I have NEVER heard any negative feedback on them other than the higher price! It would be real nice if some of the LOST members on this forum who have installed a Hemi TC would chime in and give some constructive feedback either positive or negative. That may help some of the newer members immensely who are contemplating a decision on what is their best course of action would be when trying to make a rational decision as to what TC would best fit their needs and / or budget...

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
So it kind of comes down to two things 1) What level of resources you have available ($) 2) How much you really want to never never have to change the TC again. While I have heard of Euro TC failing, and discouragement from a "Hemi TC" that originally followed a 4.7L, (High stall and shudder) I am unaware of any 5.7L Hemi TC failing behind the CRD. Those of you who have been dealing with this issue for a decade or more, may have different knowledge. If so, please share.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
mass-hole wrote: Yes but our jeeps make less torque than a Hemi, even on a Hot tune, in a lighter chassis than a Ram. So sure, its great having a 600 ft-lb rating, but it seems very far from necessary. I have a stock converter with my tune turned up to 400 ft-lbs and get very minor shudder at this point. And thats with the GDE Eco trans tune which likes to lug the crap out of it. Not to argue, but I also have a stock original TC in a stock original trans, with a stock tune (to the best of my knowledge) At any RPM over 1800, and with 2 packets of Dr Tranny's Anti Shudder stuff, and less than 1500 miles on a full tranny service and new filters, It easily reduces the stock TC clutch to a quivering jello pudding if I apply over about 60% go-pedal. 2010 Dodge Ram Hemi 1500 Quad Cab 5.7L SCT Dyno Run Made 285 RWHP and 301 RWTQ and this is with Header-back exhaust upgrade. VMM R428 easily makes more torque than this, even with Eco-Tune when backed by a TC that can hold it. In stock form, even the 2015 5Ram 1500 EcoDiesel made a maximum of 215 hp and 367 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels (Banks Engineering) Barely matching the R428 torque, WITH GDE HOT tune. Now, the fact that the Liberty is a much lighter vehicle, could help make a EURO converter clutch live, but throw a trailer behind it, loaded for a week's hunting trip, and you'll be wishing you spent the extra dough for a 5.7 Hemi TC, or better. Regarding the 5.7 Hemi TC clutch, I have no ACTUAL proof of numbers, but the number I've heard tossed around the Dodge camp is 500 lbs-ft stock. I personally think this may be a bit optimistic, but they don't seem to have trouble with it, even with turbo, NOx, or other power adders. Edited for clarity and detail

Author:	mass-hole [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
GordnadoCRD wrote: mass-hole wrote: Yes but our jeeps make less torque than a Hemi, even on a Hot tune, in a lighter chassis than a Ram. So sure, its great having a 600 ft-lb rating, but it seems very far from necessary. I have a stock converter with my tune turned up to 400 ft-lbs and get very minor shudder at this point. And thats with the GDE Eco trans tune which likes to lug the crap out of it. Not to argue, but I also have a stock original TC in a stock original trans, with a stock tune (to the best of my knowledge) At any RPM over 1800, and with 2 packets of Dr Tranny's Anti Shudder stuff, and less than 1500 miles on a full tranny service and new filters, It easily reduces the stock TC clutch to a quivering jello pudding if I apply over about 60% go-pedal. 2010 Dodge Ram Hemi 1500 Quad Cab 5.7L SCT Dyno Run Made 285 RWHP and 301 RWTQ and this is with Header-back exhaust upgrade. VMM R428 easily makes more torque than this, even with Eco-Tune when backed by a TC that can hold it. In stock form, even the 2015 5Ram 1500 EcoDiesel made a maximum of 215 hp and 367 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels (Banks Engineering) Barely matching the R428 torque, WITH GDE HOT tune. Now, the fact that the Liberty is a much lighter vehicle, could help make a EURO converter clutch live, but throw a trailer behind it, loaded for a week's hunting trip, and you'll be wishing you spent the extra dough for a 5.7 Hemi TC, or better. Regarding the 5.7 Hemi TC clutch, I have no ACTUAL proof of numbers, but the number I've heard tossed around the Dodge camp is 500 lbs-ft stock. I personally think this may be a bit optimistic, but they don't seem to have trouble with it, even with turbo, NOx, or other power adders. Edited for clarity and detail I am going to a bigger turbo and injectors shortly which should put me in the 250hp/500 ft-lb range, so I wanted to get your feedback on the PATC converter you bought. How are things working out for you? What stall speed did you order? It looks like they have a 1500 and 1800 rpm? I thought Suncoast was more like 1900 and the stock ones were higher. I also spoke with the guy at Florida Torque Converter and told him what I was doing. He said I shouldnt have any issue with their TC's at 500 ft-lbs. He also recommended to lower stall for the diesel which is the 13-37 unit for the hemi. The CRD specific unit is labels as a medium stall(which I believe he said is 1800 rpm?) and the hemi is a low stall which is more like 1500 rpm. And FYI, gde's hp and torque ratings for the Liberty are at the crank. The Ecodiesels are at the wheels. DOC4444 Dyno tested his GDE hot and eco tunes at 320 ft-lbs and 293 ft-lbs. That lines up pretty well with the Ecodiesel wheel tq at 367 seeing as it makes 420 crank.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Torque Converter Options (again)
My engine is nowhere near that output, and I have had no opportunity to compare this converter to the Suncoast. I'm pretty safe to say it's not superior to the Suncoast, but it may be pretty close to equal. That said, I believe it to be comparable with the single exception of selecting the "stall speed." I put that in quotes, as different engines with different outputs will have different results. The stall speed advertised on the PATC site for this converter is when put behind a 5.7L Hemi. The converter I ordered was with 1800 rpm. My stall speed is closer to 1900 rpm in this tune. My stock converter in this tune was stalling about 2300 rpm. The 5.7L Hemi with stock converter is right at 2000 rpm, so would probably be around 2100 rpm in this tune. If you are in the 500 ft-lb range it would be higher for you, but I cannot say by how much. I can say when driving normally with this converter, forward thrust engages NOTICEABLY sooner and at lower rpm than the stock converter. RPM are lower by about 300, at any speed when the TC clutch is not engaged than before. I understand Florida TC makes a billet unit aimed at the heavy duty market. If memory serves, it's part number is 13-37S/D. I have no idea how it compares. This new trans. fixed the 2-3 upshift problem the original one had, but came with it's own set of problems. I'm currently rebuilding the original to swap back in.