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Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86902		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mass-hole [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
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Ordered it from Bell Intercoolers. It is 20x10.3x3.5. A little thicker than I wanted but I wanted the width to be the same as the radiator so was forced to go 3.5. This core is only half the height of the factory core but is 3-3.5 x the thickness so the internal volume and flow area should be about 50% greater

You can see the external cooling fin density is quite dense. Totally opposite of the stock CAC which you could probably hold in front of you and still watch tv unobstructed. Bells theory is that the most important factor is pressure drop, therefore when you have them size the core for you that's their first consideration. Then comes cooling. Looks like their external fin density is denser than internal but that should Keep the cooler from heat soaking. My stock cac IAT's have been approaching 190F lately after only 15 seconds or so. My estimate is that it comes out of the turbo ~350F so this is pretty poor efficiency.

The plan is to remove the stock CAC, slide the AC condenser backward to the radiator, then slip this in front directly behind the grill. I may dedicate 3 of the grill openings to the intercooler and the other 4 will bypass is directly to the bottom half of the condenser/trans/radiator. My hope is that this gives me better charge air temps and improved engine cooling simultaneously.


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Author:  mass-hole [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
Will update progress
Author:  Dez [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
I have a intercooler that's been collecting dust for a few years. I've been thinking of throwing the factory unit in the garbage. Looking forward to your progress and results.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
Remember to seal the periphery of each cooling stack component, so you don't lose air flow (to or from outside), between each component.
It's pointless to have a fan shroud behind the cooling stack to pull more air efficiently, when the air is coming from the sides & between components, rather than through the stack.

Good luck and keep the pics coming!
Author:  mass-hole [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Remember to seal the periphery of each cooling stack component, so you don't lose air flow (to or from outside), between each component.
It's pointless to have a fan shroud behind the cooling stack to pull more air efficiently, when the air is coming from the sides & between components, rather than through the stack.

Good luck and keep the pics coming!


Bell's engineer actually recommended running the IC several inches in front of the condenser. I didn't ask why. He said if it was the radiator you would butt it up tight.

I am hoping after the intercooler is in place that I will be able to run an efan without overheating issues. I tried it already and it was bad at freeway speeds. The power difference between the mechanical fan and no fan is very noticeable on such a low hp engine.


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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
Quote:
Bell's engineer actually recommended running the IC several inches in front of the condenser. I didn't ask why. He said if it was the radiator you would butt it up tight.

I am hoping after the intercooler is in place that I will be able to run an efan without overheating issues. I tried it already and it was bad at freeway speeds. The power difference between the mechanical fan and no fan is very noticeable on such a low hp engine.

Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you were putting it in the existing CAC spot. He is correct if you are putting it in front, as it would allow available flow to remove heat without that heat having to go through the cooling stack.
Also, if you are removing the mechanical fan, If you install a properly sized electric fan, it will be more efficient and consume less power if installed as a puller rather than using it in front as a pusher, this is because it's spinning in a relatively low pressure environment.
Author:  thermorex [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
So where exactly is your plan to install it in front? Bumper level? Or you plan on taking out the hood latch and install it in front of the grille? I saw that you mentioned you'll relocate condenser towards radiator, but not sure if you'll have space between front grille and condenser unless you move all of them towards where old intercooler currently is. What do you plan to do with the space from the old intercooler? Will you fab some brackets or frame to hold the condenser and radiator?

Sorry for that many questions, I'm just curious what your action plan is. I contemplated doing the same thing and realized that it's a whole lot of work...
Author:  mass-hole [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Quote:
Bell's engineer actually recommended running the IC several inches in front of the condenser. I didn't ask why. He said if it was the radiator you would butt it up tight.

I am hoping after the intercooler is in place that I will be able to run an efan without overheating issues. I tried it already and it was bad at freeway speeds. The power difference between the mechanical fan and no fan is very noticeable on such a low hp engine.

Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you were putting it in the existing CAC spot. He is correct if you are putting it in front, as it would allow available flow to remove heat without that heat having to go through the cooling stack.
Also, if you are removing the mechanical fan, If you install a properly sized electric fan, it will be more efficient and consume less power if installed as a puller rather than using it in front as a pusher, this is because it's spinning in a relatively low pressure environment.


Yeah I had a derale 18" puller fan and custom shroud wired into the stock A/C fan wiring. A/C fan has been removed for almost a year now.

The derale was fine at lower speeds, but became to restrictive at higher speeds, at least that's my theory. The reason I came to this conclusion was that the engine seemed to cool better with no fan or shroud at all when I was going highway speed. Obviously it sucked at low speed.


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Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
I want do something like this too.
Some of my obervations:

1. The factory radiator and intercooler bolt together and support each other. Removing the intercooler means that some sort of bracket would have to be made to support the top of the radiator.

2. The AC condensor bolts to the intercooler. Without the intercooler, some sort of brackets would have to be made to support the condensor.
When I do this I plan to replace the CRD condensor with a 3.7 condensor. Its bigger and doesnt have the trans cooler built into it. I will also install a aftermarket trans cooler.

3. Without the factory intercooler, condensor fan, and repositioned condensor, there is plenty of room for both the aftermarket intercooler and the hood latch bracket. But getting rid of the hood latch stuff will free up some more room and hood pins are kinda cool... :twisted:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79154
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
As you're going to have the radiator out anyway, you should pull the lower tank and install a better Transmission Fluid cooler. You would need to get one that installs with compressible grommets rather than solder.
Author:  mass-hole [ Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
thermorex wrote:
So where exactly is your plan to install it in front? Bumper level? Or you plan on taking out the hood latch and install it in front of the grille? I saw that you mentioned you'll relocate condenser towards radiator, but not sure if you'll have space between front grille and condenser unless you move all of them towards where old intercooler currently is. What do you plan to do with the space from the old intercooler? Will you fab some brackets or frame to hold the condenser and radiator?

Sorry for that many questions, I'm just curious what your action plan is. I contemplated doing the same thing and realized that it's a whole lot of work...


Sorry, I did not see this post. Yes I was going to push the condenser back to where the cac currently is. I would make some simple brackets to mount it to where the Cac bolts currently are and simultaneously hold the condenser. Without the AC fan there is almost enough room now, but with the AC pushed back there is a lot of room.


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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
Regarding your Derale fan, having reduced airflow at highway speeds is a common problem with electric fans, as the round fan shroud hole has significantly less area than the rectangular radiator.

I've seen Japanese and European vehicles solve this problem by cutting out the corners of the shroud, and attaching framed rubber flaps on the engine side. When the fan comes on at low speed the flaps suck against the holes in the shroud, allowing the fan to pull through the whole area of the radiator, and when the vehicle is at speed, they fly back allowing air to flow through the additional area in the corners, rather than all having to funnel through only the fan opening.
Author:  mass-hole [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Regarding your Derale fan, having reduced airflow at highway speeds is a common problem with electric fans, as the round fan shroud hole has significantly less area than the rectangular radiator.

I've seen Japanese and European vehicles solve this problem by cutting out the corners of the shroud, and attaching framed rubber flaps on the engine side. When the fan comes on at low speed the flaps suck against the holes in the shroud, allowing the fan to pull through the whole area of the radiator, and when the vehicle is at speed, they fly back allowing air to flow through the additional area in the corners, rather than all having to funnel through only the fan opening.


I looked at these and considered putting them on my shroud, but since I was still having overheat issues with no shroud or fan installed I figured this still wouldn't work. With my bigger tires and my altitude, I think I simply must have the mechanical fan.


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Author:  Bushman5 [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finally pulled the trigger on an intercooler
i like that intercooler......you giving me ideas now.....mount it on the ARB bumper and stick two fans on it and armor the outside (front) heavy duty 1" metal mesh....
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