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05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86955		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  kerryc [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hello,

Did some work on the CRD, New timing belt, tensioner and pulleys. That all went well. I cranked manually 12 times and the timing was bang on every time. Then I started it, it started perfect the first time and ran nice. No weird sounds - I was feeling good about it.

Then I installed the altenator. During the install I bumped the altenator wire, the big one that bolds on (12v) and it shorted. I had forgot to unplug the battery after the TB test.

I finished installing it then went to start again as a test and it would not turn over. It would click and you can hear relays. This happens a couple times then it tries to turn over, spins a bit and stops. Here is a video. https://youtu.be/V0tU2D4nnNM

I don't think the TB is an issue. I checked the fuses under the hood and all is good. No DTC's.

Any ideas?

Thanks very much guys.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
I'm not big of diagnosing modern vehicle electronics but if I am reading you right you created a dead short to ground which blew something (it's not the TB) so:
1. when you checked the underhood fuses did you do it visually or did you check for continuity with a volt/ohm meter (sometimes a blown fuse is not visibly blown)
2. did you check the fuses behind the panel on the left side of the instrument panel (open driver's door and look at outer edge of panel)
Author:  kerryc [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Thanks very much for your reply.

I did just do a visual check and only under the hood.

I am going to have a good check of all the fuses, nor just visual.

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I was wasting time convincing myself if was not related to the TB. Timing scares me.

Cheers
Kerry
Author:  Bushman5 [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
crankshaft position sensor perhaps...they fail pretty often
Author:  kerryc [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Ok,

I will look into that also. Not familiar with that... Yet.

Thanks.

Kerry
Author:  Billybob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
This large alternator wire that you shorted to ground has a "fusable link" built inside it which will blow if it gets a dead short or if you jumper the battery the wrong way around.

You can test it by measuring for + 12 volts on the Red positive battery terminal with respect to chassis.....ignition OFF. You should obviously get +12 volts there. Now move the meter lead from the battery terminal and check if you have +12 volts on the alternator side of this thick wire....if the link has not blown you will get +12 volts there as well with respect to chassis.

You can then remove this thick cable completely and check for continuity end to end with an Ohm meter....if it has blown you need to order a new cable...the fusable link is there to prevent fire in the engine bay in case of a dead short.

The ECM, BCM etc. may be complaining that when you turn over the engine it does not sense any charge voltage coming from the alternator.

Unlikely that ECM, BCM etc. got damaged but vaguely possible. :?
Author:  Billybob [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Make sure the engine manualy turns over then try swap over the starter relay with another relay or remove this relay and jumper female pins 30 and 87 briefly together to see if the engine turns over and runs if ignition is ON. This overrides the ignition switch/actuator and the Park/Neutral switch.

Also try swap over the ASD relay with an identical one next to it.

Are there any lamps lit or flashing on the cluster? :?
Author:  kerryc [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Thanks everyone for the ideas - this is great to have some direction.

As an update I have gone through all the fuses and everything looks good. I have not tested all fuses, I have to get my multimeter from work today.

I will work through all of Billybob's points after work today.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to answer, it is much appreciated.

Kerry
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Not crank position senor. If that fails the engine will crank and either not start or only start intermittently or only start if the engine is cold.
Author:  kerryc [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hello,

UPDATE

It seems that now when I turn the key it just ticks - but does not try to tur over like in the video. I am charging up the battery as it may just be that.

Papaindigo

All fuses (both panels) checked with an ohm meter and good.

Billybob

This large alternator wire that you shorted to ground has a "fusible link" built inside it - Tested and is good. I get 12v on both ends.

***** Make sure the engine manually turns over then try swap over the starter relay with another relay or remove this relay and jumper female pins 30 and 87 briefly together to see if the engine turns over and runs if ignition is ON. - This worked, when I jump the connection it turns over - does not start. I tried a few different relays and it does not turn over. Just clicks. So, is the ignition signal not getting to the relay to tell it to turn over?

Also try swap over the ASD relay with an identical one next to it. - Tried it, no change.

Are there any lamps lit or flashing on the cluster? Just the CEL and Radiator lights.
Image

It felt like some success when it turned over with the jumper wire on the starter relay. Is there another wire from the ignition to the starter or relay that may have a fuse or in-line fusible link that I may have blown?

Getting closer, thanks so much for your comments and direction.

Kerry
Author:  Irocelectric93 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
When you turn the key does it feel okay in the key itself? Could it have been a coincidence that the actuator pin broke at the same time all this was going on?

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Author:  kerryc [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hi,

My thought exactly. I have just taken that apart. The pin is good and the starter switch is good too. Just putting that back together now.

Kerry
Author:  kerryc [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hmmm, Well I think I have made maters worse.

In trying the new ignition switch I have now lost the ability to turn on the key and not have the SKIS system on. ie the red dot light on the instrument panel now stays on.

Image

I left the battery unplugged so will see if anything changes when I get home from work.

Has anyone had any luck getting their keys to work again after the red light? Both my keys unlock / lock the doors but both will not get past the red light now. I noticed the red light after I put the new ignition switch on... so I put the old one back and same issue.

Thanks everyone.

Kerry
Author:  joe_ [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
The Sentry Key REmote Entry Module (SKREEM) is located on the right side of the steering column and has a ring-shaped antenna that surrounds the outer end of the ignition key cylinder. It verifies the correct transponder chip is in the key. Maybe you unplugged it while you were working and forgot to plug it back in?
Author:  kerryc [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hi,

I saw that ring and did not unplug it. I even tried to adjust it's position slightly to see if it would pick up a key. It appears to be seated correctly. I find it strange that I created this additional issue by removing the ignition switch?? I hope to investigate further and figure it out tonight.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Kerry
Author:  Irocelectric93 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
So the key will or will not turn at all now? I assume the key goes all the way in and such like it should? Those things can be a pain to get back together.

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Author:  kerryc [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hi,

Key physically turns fine. I didn't take out the barrel or the pin - just removed the ignition switch from the left side of column.

Image
how to upload photos to internet

I can turn the key on, and all the way as if to start it but there is nothing as the SKREEM system is engaged.

At least I am secure in my ability to make a medium sized problem a little bigger.

K
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Go back and check the ASD fuse under the hood again.
Then try swapping the ASD relay with another one.

Either of those can light the red dot and the engine will crank but not start.
Author:  kerryc [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Will do. ASD fuse and relay.

Thank you, be home in a few hours to 'resume'.

Cheers. Kerry
Author:  Irocelectric93 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 05 Liberty CRD - Wont Turn Over
Hey man keep at it. I'm a professional at making a broken jeep more broke lol.

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