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Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89599		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ludi Neethling [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
As it is too expensive ($1 = ZAR13.95) to import EGR delete kit from USA to South Africa but I still want to eliminate exhaust soot from intake air I inserted a block plate at the EGR feed pipe and removed the Flow Control Valve (FCV) butterfly valve. Shut-off is now very ruff. Can I replace the FCV butterfly valve (for smoother shut-down) with the block off in place without unplugging the EGR? Currently the FCV and EGR are both plugged in and there is no CEL. I read most of the posts regarding EGR delete but did not see complaints regarding rough shut-down. Do you just live with it or am I missing something?
Author:  TKB4 [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
I have done EGR deletes by cutting and bending pipes and sealing with permeatex as well as welding pipes and also using weeks kit II. I have also used home made block off plates etc. similar to what you did. I also removed the butterfly valve on 2 CRDs that were done this way. I have experienced no rough shutdowns without the butterfly valve though I know its original purpose was to control air supply and prevent rough shutdown. If you still have the pipe from the flow control valve area to egr this could have an air leak. Also make sure intercooler hose is clamped well and doesn't have crack etc on intake side. make sure the gaskets to intake are well sealed too.
Author:  Ludi Neethling [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Thank you TKB4. Will check.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Way back when I first put in a blank off plate and removed the butterfly plate out of the FCV, I could tell no difference in the shutdown characteristics of the engine.
I now have the Weeks kit and have had it installed for several years now and have never noticed any unusual or rough shutdowns.
As TKB4 stated, there may be some other contributing factor causing your rough shutdowns. :(

One other thing to consider is bad motor mounts. They can and do go bad on these vehicles and will allow the engine to rock excessively, especially at shutdown. They have a hydraulic mechanism in them internally that can wear out with age. Worn out motor mounts can also intensify and perpetuate a rattling noise both at engine idle and shutdown. Ask me how I know this! :banghead:
Author:  Ludi Neethling [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Thank you WWDiesel. I was also thinking about the engine mounts. I,ve replaced the mount 60,000 km ago. Could they deteriorate so quickly? I used your diagram to make the block off plate, thank you for that. There is a loud buzzing at the vacuum reservoir, as if there is pressure building which is not released. Is there any vacuum line that I should disconnect?

I doubt that there are any air leaks. The only components I worked on was the EGR inlet port and I removed the CAC hose to get to the FCV.
Author:  weeks101 [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
WWDiesel wrote:
One other thing to consider is bad motor mounts. They can and do go bad on these vehicles and will allow the engine to rock excessively, especially at shutdown. They have a hydraulic mechanism in them internally that can wear out with age. Worn out motor mounts can also intensify and perpetuate a rattling noise both at engine idle and shutdown.

I came here to say this, you beat me to it.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
I would say that the shutdowns are slightly rougher without the butterfly, but consider the alternative. I remove these valves on a regular basis, so I have a lot of before and after experience. Now you have a real or 'normal' diesel.
you could do a self tune for very little cost to eliminate any engine lights, and don't worry about the diesel "death rattle" as it's minor compared to taking off from a dead stop.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
weeks101 wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
One other thing to consider is bad motor mounts. They can and do go bad on these vehicles and will allow the engine to rock excessively, especially at shutdown. They have a hydraulic mechanism in them internally that can wear out with age. Worn out motor mounts can also intensify and perpetuate a rattling noise both at engine idle and shutdown.

I came here to say this, you beat me to it.

Like minds! :wink:
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Mountainman wrote:
I would say that the shutdowns are slightly rougher without the butterfly, but consider the alternative. I remove these valves on a regular basis, so I have a lot of before and after experience. Now you have a real or 'normal' diesel.
you could do a self tune for very little cost to eliminate any engine lights, and don't worry about the diesel "death rattle" as it's minor compared to taking off from a dead stop.
Exactly. The shutdown is rougher because now only fuel is cut but air isn't. With the flow control valve, when shutting down, the butterfly closes for a moment and then opens back up, making the shutdown smoother since the air is also cut.

Motor mounts would have been noticeable at idle, engine start or when moving vehicle back and/or forward, independently of shut down.

When I changed my mounts, shutdown hasn't improved. I also have weeks elbow kit (so no FCV).
Author:  Ludi Neethling [ Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Thank you for all the replies. Bottom line: if I am not happy with rough shut-down, I will have to remove the EGR block-off plate and replace the FCV butterfly valve. I will drive like this for a while and then decide what to do. It seems to me the ideal would be to leave the FCV intact but delete the EGR "function" from the ECU. Then the FCV would only close at shut down? Unfortunately I am not sure (and scared) how to use the relevant remap programs to do this. I found this quite interesting: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technica ... plate.html
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Think of it this way...

After all of it's previous life suffering from EPA's weirdness, it is NOW shutting down like a proper diesel should. There is nothing wrong with it, just give yourself time to get used to it.
You should keep an eye on engine movement though, and whether the engine mounts (and trans mount) are allowing too much movement.
Author:  Ludi Neethling [ Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Thank you GordnadoCRD, will do. The engine and gearbox mountings have been replaced 60,000 km ago.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rough shut-down after FCV butterfly valve removed
Ludi Neethling wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Bottom line: if I am not happy with rough shut-down, I will have to remove the EGR block-off plate and replace the FCV butterfly valve. I will drive like this for a while and then decide what to do. It seems to me the ideal would be to leave the FCV intact but delete the EGR "function" from the ECU. Then the FCV would only close at shut down? Unfortunately I am not sure (and scared) how to use the relevant remap programs to do this. I found this quite interesting: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technica ... plate.html

You could just leave the EGR block off plate in place and reinstall the butterfly plate in the FCV if you want, but there are untold numbers of these vehicles running around stateside with no FCV. Having no FCV is not a issue; if it were we would have discovered it years ago!
But you certainly need to continue the disablement of the highly detrimental soot flowing into the intake. And NO tune can fully guarantee no flow through the EGR valve in either direction either soot in or lost boost out.
Only a block off plate or total removal of the EGR system with a Weeks kit can fully eliminate any potential EGR leakby.
:D
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