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Rough Idle, Loss of Power
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9055		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  WaterRat [ Tue May 30, 2006 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Rough Idle, Loss of Power
Well I took the CRD on a short 250 mile road trip this weekend. On the way I filled up with my first tank of B20. Everything was going great...We had checked out of the hotel and stopped a couple miles down the road for a bite to eat. When we hit the road for the trip back, I pulled out onto a side street and the throttle went sluggish. It appeared that it was about to die. I pulled right back into a parking lot and at idle (800 rpm) it was knocking and shaking roughly. I dropped it into park and pushed the peddle to WOT. It was a slow creep from idle to 3000RPM. When I put it back in drive and push WOT, nothing happened. The RPM's would not even budge. Zero power.

So I kill it, get out and pop the hood. Just looking for anythign obvious, split or blown hoses, loose wiring, but find nothing. I had burned about 1/2 of the B20 fill up, so I did not think it was the fuel.

Get back in and fired it up, everything is great. Running fine, no issues. Get back on the road and it never repeated the issue.

I'm about ready to drive this thing off a cliff. 2 EGR's, Full Tranny Rebuild, now this???? I love this vehicle, but this is getting rediculous.
Author:  Guest [ Tue May 30, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
That is certaintly strange. How did it shift after the tranny rebuild? Maybe some kind of computer control wire/harness is loose on the tranny after they messed with it??? Don't know. After the first few words of you post I figured it was a clogged fuel filter, but it ran well afterwards, so it's a mystery.

It probably threw a code that the dealer can read even though it runs fine right now...
Author:  WaterRat [ Tue May 30, 2006 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
As far as the rebuild on the tranny, it's not 100%. At about 100 miles after the rebuild I had a real hard shift or maybe it was the torque converter unlocking and locking back up. Once it did that, the check engine came on and it would not shift into OD. Got to the destination and parked it. Came back out after 20 min. and it was fine. Plus the check engine went out by the time I got home. I think the tranny still has crap in it from the clutch material of the torque converter. Anyway, I have not had time to take it back for that episode.

This new problem was engine related as far as I know. Indeed it was like it was not getting fuel. The wife and I were going to head up to the lake on the way home but with the problem we just took it to the house. We said, maybe it was a sign that we were not supposed to go to the lake. :)

My best guess, the ECU glitched on the fuel management and or sensors related to that. Turning it off for a few minutes and restarting, reset the ECU and it was happy again. Anyone know if the ECU is Windows based? LOL :-)r
Author:  greiswig [ Tue May 30, 2006 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
It may be that the biodiesel freed up some of the accumulated crud lining your fuel tank and lines, which temporarily blocked a fuel pickup line until the clog was able to make its way to the filter. Some people who have older vehicles end up having to change their filter after running a tank with biodiesel in it. Let it go, see if the problem repeats, and then check the codes.
Author:  Inet_CRD [ Tue May 30, 2006 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had the same thing happen to me. I had just merged onto the freeway, was about to change lanes when I heard a muted bang. From that point same symptoms, no power, ran very rough, barely enough power to move. Luckily the next offramp was right beside a Chrysler dealer. I managed to limp it in, 4 way flashers going, etc. to the dealership. While driving I did not see any smoke, no CEL, tried the nuetral thing and like you could barely get it up to 3000. Got to the dealors lot, parked it, did a quick look over and could see nothing. I did manage to get a tech to check for codes and it had one, "0299 turbo under pressure" code that was thrown during the episode. Like you I started it back up, and it hasen't done it again.

What I suspect happened:
1. EGR valve stuck open after I merged onto the highway. Maybe a rogue bit of crud breaking off?
2. Backed off the thottle, valve being stuck open caused the engine to get enough exhaust mixed in to actually make it backfire out the exhaust. Guessing that the unburned diesel hit the cat. converter or atmosphere and ignited there causing a backfire.
3. Merrily ran like crap, burning the glowplugs away in an effort keep combustion temps up and the engine running, getting almost no exhaust pressure to the turbo (bypassing into the intake intsead) which would have caused the 0299 code.
4. Once the engine was turned off the EGR unstuck itself and has worked since.

Since you have had two EGR's replaced, I'm wondering if it may be something else as well. I just had the latest engine/tranny flash done prior to this happening - maybe there is something to the programming glitch theory...
Author:  jeepmanCRD [ Tue May 30, 2006 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Holy crap, my jeep done the exact same thing on regular diesel..
Author:  WaterRat [ Tue May 30, 2006 3:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I'm glad it's not just me. I have an 05' CRD Sport and it looks like it has happened to 06's as well.

I guess we just add this to the list.

I'll be getting mine into the dealer to see if there are any stored codes. I would be curious to see if I have the 0299 code as well.
Author:  skywarn [ Tue May 30, 2006 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
New guy here... been reading for about a month now.. after reading this post i just had to get on here and post.

The answer we all seek is:

Air Charge Tube :shock:

under the car, feet to rear head to front bumper...just on the right side of the motor, is a small tube that has been splitting on the side so you wouldnt be able to see it from the top. It just happend to me last night. driving down the thinkin happy Jeep thoughts.. then POP SSSSSSSS i thought i blew a tire.. pull over, all looks good. hop back in and step on the gas.. putt putt putt.... RPM to red line then shifts to 2nd.. same thing till 4th.. and im still not going faster than 30 MPH. hit a stop sign and RPM is rough.. 500rpm to 1200rpm then back down non stop. took it into the shop at first light. Its funny, they knew what was wrong the min i pulled in. so i should have it back by tomarow.

BTW im still under 30K miles... and all the codes that will pop up will say " mass air senser" "low boost press" but its not them.

the cause they said " its nothing you did... its just been starting to happen latley"
Author:  Ranger1 [ Tue May 30, 2006 7:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
What does this "air charge tube" connect from and to down under there? The turbo hoses are on top on the right side, both the intake and the pressure side to the CAC (intercooler), so it can't be that.
Author:  DZL_LOU [ Tue May 30, 2006 9:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
skywarn wrote:
New guy here... been reading for about a month now.. after reading this post i just had to get on here and post.

The answer we all seek is:

Air Charge Tube :shock:

under the car, feet to rear head to front bumper...just on the right side of the motor, is a small tube that has been splitting on the side so you wouldnt be able to see it from the top. Its funny, they knew what was wrong the min i pulled in. so i should have it back by tomarow.

BTW im still under 30K miles... and all the codes that will pop up will say " mass air senser" "low boost press" but its not them.

the cause they said " its nothing you did... its just been starting to happen latley"


When you get the CRD back tomorrow, please post the part number, part cost and labor cost of this "air charge tube". May also want to ask the stealership, just how many of these "air charge tubes" they have replaced since they stated that it's just starting to happen lately.
Author:  Inet_CRD [ Tue May 30, 2006 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it's a split hose the rough running should be all the time. The problem for some members seems to be just once as in my case, or at random. Hopefully you can shed more light on what it does, part numbers, etc.
Author:  skywarn [ Wed May 31, 2006 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
well im suspose to get it back today... i really cant stand driving the pt cruzer... wow... havent been in a gas car for a long time! HA!

I will be more than happy to post the all the parts and labor ans soon as i get it. Stay Tunned!
Author:  WaterRat [ Wed May 31, 2006 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, that's a good thing to know, but does not sound like the same problem I had.

Sitting still, I could only get the RPM's to increase in park or neutral. While in drive, pushing the throttle to WOT, it would do nothing. No increase in RPM's.

Then it has been completely fixed with the miraculous turn it off and turn it back on.

The funny part of the story is...I'm sitting there pushing the throttle, shifting gears, listening to it knock and my wife says, "Why don't you kill it and restart it". I'm thinking to myself, yeah like that's going to help. Anyone tried crow, man it's tastey!!
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed May 31, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like you ruptured a Intercooler hose, which would be close to the area you are talking about on the CRD. There is no other hose from turbo being pressurized anywhere else on this engine other then the two intercooler hoses, so it could only be a IC hose or as some call it CAC hose.

My guess they are starting to see some IC hose failures due to oil softening of the hose. VW used a hose that wasn't bothered by the oil at least. :roll:
Author:  skywarn [ Wed May 31, 2006 2:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
still havent got it back yet BUT they did call and say it wouldnt be done till the days end... they wanted to test some other stuff.

so far the only part they have changed is the Air Charging Tube PART NUMBER: 55037730AD

that info is from the phone call, if there is anything else they change ill copy it off of the Repair Order
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed May 31, 2006 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
skywarn wrote:
still havent got it back yet BUT they did call and say it wouldnt be done till the days end... they wanted to test some other stuff.

so far the only part they have changed is the Air Charging Tube PART NUMBER: 55037730AD

that info is from the phone call, if there is anything else they change ill copy it off of the Repair Order
That is a large tube that looks like a radiator hose and if I remember correctly you said it was left side. It is part of the intercooler system and sometimes refered to as Charged Air Cooler in trucking world.
Author:  skywarn [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
well folks... thats all she wrote... that was the only part that was replaced and it was free of charge being that it was till under the 36K warty. when asked about the cause i was told "well like i said before, ive seen a few latly but we have no idea why its happening"

at least its fixed now.. and for the record.... the customer service at Bankston C-J-D in Frisco, TX sux!
Author:  RFCRD [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  A Clue
skywarn wrote:
well folks... thats all she wrote... that was the only part that was replaced and it was free of charge being that it was till under the 36K warty. when asked about the cause i was told "well like i said before, ive seen a few latly but we have no idea why its happening"

at least its fixed now.. and for the record.... the customer service at Bankston C-J-D in Frisco, TX sux!

A clue: just look at the oil puddle in the bottom of that hose. Silicone hose or not, it will eventually soften that hose and cause it to fail under pressure.
Author:  oldnavy [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Clue
RFCRD wrote:
A clue: just look at the oil puddle in the bottom of that hose. Silicone hose or not, it will eventually soften that hose and cause it to fail under pressure.
RFCD the VW hoses seem to be unaffected by the oil, the last for years as as a rule. My personal experience with VW is 65k plus and never a hose problem, have friends with 100K plus miles and 5 to 10 years and no CAC hose problems. D/C just needs to find the right materials like VW has done.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Could something be sticking on the turbo and over pressurizing causing the weakest link to "pop" or split :?: I've owned 2 vw tdi's and put over 100k on both and never had hose problems. I did have the hocky puck go bad on the 96 passat and dump oil into the intercooler though :roll:
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