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FF Dynamics Electric Fan
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90563		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  thesameguy [ Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  FF Dynamics Electric Fan
Anybody have experience with this? I've got a broken fan shroud and a clutch with 180k on it... since I'm thinking about replacing both, I'm not far off in cost from the FFD kit ($280) and that clears up a lot of room in the engine bay, maybe frees up some HP and mpg too?
Author:  PZKW108 [ Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
You will get better MPG for sure.

I have a Flex-a-lite 15-inch Black Magic with a shroud and a Derale controller.

Had been working good for me for the last 4 years !
Author:  flash7210 [ Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
Lots of 16 inch electric fans available through Summit for under $200.
IMO, any one of those will work just as good, no fancy shroud needed.

I ran for several years with no engine driven fan, using only the electric fan in the grille.
Worked great, although I never had to tow anything or do much mountain driving.

It wasn’t until recently that my CRD started having trouble keeping cool during the hot summer months. I figured that fan motor must be wearing out.
So, instead of dealing with an electric fan repair/replacement, I went with the fixed flex fan. It’s fairly cheap and easy and the engine has zero problems keeping cool.
Author:  timothyd [ Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
Does anyone know if there is any real world data on MPG gains? Aside from that i'm fine with my mech fan and the hayden clutch.
Author:  thesameguy [ Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
I doubt random people keeping mileage logs is useful for anything. Different places & different techniques will yield different results. Academically not wasting engine power to unnecessarily spin a fan has *got* to net some improvement... whether it's tangible or not is another matter. ;)

It can crest 110 here during the summer - not running a shroud is asking for problems. A good shroud is worth a lot of fan in traffic. My concern is actually that the FFD shroud's volume looks quite small, and I'm wondering what that does for hot weather performance under normal, on-the-road driving. I have found issues with the similar shroud on my XR4Ti.... when it's 100 out and you're hustling up a 5000' climb at 50, a small volume shroud compromises cooling capacity. :( I think the CRD's radiator is more square than the XR's, so maybe the "wasted" shrouded area is less, and the lack of volume is less of a worry. :shrug:
Author:  PZKW108 [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
For my CRD build oriented mostly on fuel economy, one of the biggest MPG improvement I've seen was the electric fan. I don't want to give you actual number but it was more the the GDE eco-tune !

There's lots of CFM myth regarding engine fan. But I can tell you the most important thing is the SHROUD..... Air that doesn't go trough the radiator is not cooling anything.

The other thing peoples get confuse is comparing the very high CFM of the OEM fan and the numbers you get with an electric fan. The mechanical fan works with the engine RPM and gives you the rated CFM at a relatively high RPM.
The OEM is good when you climb a hill at high RPM ( wish I don't like to do....) but if you are to overheat and you stop on the side of the road or drive really slowly or in offroad situation the electric fan is WAY better.

At the end of the day I think it is hard to match the cooling effect of the OEM fan but to me the fuel economy make up for it !
Author:  thesameguy [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
FFD's eBay page has a bunch of anecdotal 2-3mpg claims ("satisfied customers) but since I have no before numbers whatever improvement would be invisible. :)

I did read a lot from customers on Wrangler forums who echo your comment ... The mechanical fan led to overheats on trails which the FFD (specifically) cured.

I am already into this way more than I should... Barring any negative feedback I think I will go for it. If nothing else, going electric will probably save a bunch of cursing when I need to mess with the belt drive or whatever down the road. :)
Author:  PZKW108 [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
FFD's eBay page has a bunch of anecdotal 2-3mpg claims ("satisfied customers) but since I have no before numbers whatever improvement would be invisible. :)

I did read a lot from customers on Wrangler forums who echo your comment ... The mechanical fan led to overheats on trails which the FFD (specifically) cured.

I am already into this way more than I should... Barring any negative feedback I think I will go for it. If nothing else, going electric will probably save a bunch of cursing when I need to mess with the belt drive or whatever down the road. :)


I suggest to get a good controller, not the one that go trhu the rad. Mine is a derale and the sensor tread right into the HDS model 001 thermostat housing. I also suggest you have a LED so you know when your fan is running.

And the 2-3MPG stated seem to be in the ballpark !!
Author:  thesameguy [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
Why a variable controller?

I do need to look into that HDS housing as well. I meant to do that last week & forgot! I found a bunch of references on various Jeep forums but no actual contact or pricing information. The dude who makes it should work out a deal with Sasquatch etc!
Author:  PZKW108 [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
Why a variable controller?

I do need to look into that HDS housing as well. I meant to do that last week & forgot! I found a bunch of references on various Jeep forums but no actual contact or pricing information. The dude who makes it should work out a deal with Sasquatch etc!


You need to find the right temp depending on your thermostat and preference, if set too low it will always run and too high it will never run !

Contact TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK to get info on the HDS model 001. One of the best mod done on my Jeep. !!!!!
You have 3 sensor ports, 1 for the oem sensor to the ECM and 2 more.
I use one for my fan controller and I also have a Temp gauge on the dash.
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
Anybody have experience with this? I've got a broken fan shroud and a clutch with 180k on it... since I'm thinking about replacing both, I'm not far off in cost from the FFD kit ($280) and that clears up a lot of room in the engine bay, maybe frees up some HP and mpg too?
I have it. You gain maybe 1-2 mpg if you're light with acceleration. The kit from eBay has a shroud that is smaller than the radiator but it works fine. On paper, for the equivalent cfm, the 16'' fans you get from other manufacturers are quite close in price. I'd use a variable speed fan controller also... Check the tech section of the forum, I wrote some reviews there some years ago...

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Author:  TKB4 [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
Just a reminder Flash and I have both run our CRD s without anything but the electric stock fan no mechanical fan at all and he lives in Fl and where I am it regularly gets over 100 in the summer usually mid 90 s and I use ac in traffic etc with no engine temp problems I can also tow up to about 1500 lbs but if I tow a heavier load I put mechanical fan back in . Its also fairly flat around here. I am not recommending this I am just telling you I do this on my personal CRD without difficulties. So unless you tow heavy loads in hilly country it probably wouldn't take as much air flow as you think to be adequate.

BTW I have an extra fan shroud I would part with but it may have had the shroudectomy that it needs anyway.
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
California is many things, but not flat … less than an hour away is the Sierra Nevadas and I make regular use of them. :)
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
Why a variable controller?

I do need to look into that HDS housing as well. I meant to do that last week & forgot! I found a bunch of references on various Jeep forums but no actual contact or pricing information. The dude who makes it should work out a deal with Sasquatch etc!



thesameguy:

I sent you an e-mail. Please reply directly to my e-mail address from your e-mail address. I am not allowed to do business on LOSTJEEPS.com, and I want to continue to to honour my commitment/agreement to Heather here.

The most definitely is not enough profit margin in sales of the Model 001 to even consider having any sort of distribution network at all, be it Sasquatch Parts or I.D. Parts. Model 001 parts are machined from blocks of 6061 T6 aluminum and it is therefore very expensive to manufacture. Potential customers must contact me directly.

Jeff
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
Anybody have experience with this? I've got a broken fan shroud and a clutch with 180k on it... since I'm thinking about replacing both, I'm not far off in cost from the FFD kit ($280) and that clears up a lot of room in the engine bay, maybe frees up some HP and mpg too?



I have seen several times on this forum postings that claim the single radiator fan from Crown Victoria Police Interceptors will fit quite nicely and are quite powerful. Police cars have heavy duty EVERYTHING due to the severe use that they get using a small block V-8 to pull a 4500 lb car; therefore the fan will be designed to pull a lot of air.

They should be easy to find in wrecking yards all across North America, and cheap to purchase. All you would need then is the controller unit described by PZKW108.
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
That's great to know about the Crown Vic option. The Taurus fans have been a go-to for a lot of other cars, so I guess it's no surprise that another Ford might yield something useful. :) A whole assembly is only $100 new, so maybe I will just pick one up and find out. :)
Author:  PZKW108 [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
That's great to know about the Crown Vic option. The Taurus fans have been a go-to for a lot of other cars, so I guess it's no surprise that another Ford might yield something useful. :) A whole assembly is only $100 new, so maybe I will just pick one up and find out. :)


This option coupled with a good controller sound like a good option !!!! :JEEPIN:
Author:  TKB4 [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
After looking at some you tube videos and reading about the CARB position. It seems even an aftermarket thermostat could be construed as against the CARB rules. Luckily Jeff operates in Canada but Sasquatch etc doesn't even if Jeff wanted them to sell it they may be scared to since can change the operation temperature of the engine (for the good) from the factory conditions. Apparently if followed exactly even putting oversized tires on a vehicle might be against the CARB regulations !!!
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
I am not sure where you got that information, but it's certainly not true. "Thermostat" and "tires" are not part of the emissions control system, they are not subject to CVC27156.

Things that are (or might be, depending on year):

Air Clean
Airflow Sensor
Intake Manifold
Intercooler
Turbo/Supercharger
Tuning Devices (aka "chips")
Air injection rails
EGR
After-treatment controls (cats, DEF, particulate filters, etc.)
Exhaust before last treatment device
Alternative fuel kits
Carburetors
Fuel delivery system (pressure regulators, injectors)
Ignition system (distributors, "chips")
Camshaft
Engine mechanical (cylinder heads, pistons, etc.)

Thermostats and tires do not require an exemption order.
Author:  PZKW108 [ Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FF Dynamics Electric Fan
thesameguy wrote:
I am not sure where you got that information, but it's certainly not true. "Thermostat" and "tires" are not part of the emissions control system, they are not subject to CVC27156.

Things that are (or might be, depending on year):

Air Clean
Airflow Sensor
Intake Manifold
Intercooler
Turbo/Supercharger
Tuning Devices (aka "chips")
Air injection rails
EGR
After-treatment controls (cats, DEF, particulate filters, etc.)
Exhaust before last treatment device
Alternative fuel kits
Carburetors
Fuel delivery system (pressure regulators, injectors)
Ignition system (distributors, "chips")
Camshaft
Engine mechanical (cylinder heads, pistons, etc.)

Thermostats and tires do not require an exemption order.


You might be right about CVC27156

But for the Chrysler engineers the choice of low temperature operating thermostat (176F) is there for emission purpose ( NOX ) And it might be one of the reason why it's an unserviceable unit !!!!
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