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Transmission not going into 4 or 5
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90811		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Transmission not going into 4 or 5
2005 won't go into 4th or 5th. Throwing 2 codes: P700 and P1790. I took it to 2 different transmission shops. The first shop could not figure it out. The second shop said that I needed a new solenoid/trs assembly. I purchased a new assembly (https://www.ebay.com/itm/322300582162) and installed it this weekend.

After warming up the transmission (must be above 60F), I tried to do a "quick learn" and it stalled the engine. I figured the oil was still too cold so I drove it around the block again to warm the oil and tried again. With the oil warmer, it does not stall the engine, but it does drop the rpm's enough that it restarts the quick learn due to "low engine rpms". I tried putting my foot on the throttle to boost the rpms up to 1000, but it won't learn due to "engine rpms too high".

Shifts from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 seem rough compared to my other CRD's. The quick learn will probably fix that IF I could get it to complete. But I still don't have 4 or 5 working. The engine stall during the learn suggests to me that there is something wrong with the trans. All controllers seem to working according to my cheap scanner (Launch X431).

Any suggestions?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
How old is the Front Pump assembly?
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
WWDiesel wrote:
How old is the Front Pump assembly?


Approximately 16k miles.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
No 4th or 5th gears means the OD clutch isn’t engaging.
I’m assuming you installed the correct solenoid pack. There are two versions. White plug connector and black.

Could also be a problem in the valve body. Like a leaking accumulator or broken accumulator spring.
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
flash7210 wrote:
No 4th or 5th gears means the OD clutch isn’t engaging.
I’m assuming you installed the correct solenoid pack. There are two versions. White plug connector and black.

Could also be a problem in the valve body. Like a leaking accumulator or broken accumulator spring.


Is there a temperature sensor involved in allowing the OD clutch to operate? It seems I read somewhere that it needs to be a certain temp before it will go into 4th.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
Something controls that because mine would not shift out of 3rd on really cold days until it warmed up after several miles of driving.
Jay ne Ohio wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
No 4th or 5th gears means the OD clutch isn’t engaging.
I’m assuming you installed the correct solenoid pack. There are two versions. White plug connector and black.

Could also be a problem in the valve body. Like a leaking accumulator or broken accumulator spring.


Is there a temperature sensor involved in allowing the OD clutch to operate? It seems I read somewhere that it needs to be a certain temp before it will go into 4th.


Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
Mine will shift into 4th when cold but there will be no TC lockup.
Once the transmission warms up the TC clutch will apply.

I'm using the Hemi TCM so I dont know if that makes a difference.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
flash7210 wrote:
Mine will shift into 4th when cold but there will be no TC lockup.
Once the transmission warms up the TC clutch will apply.
I'm using the Hemi TCM so I don't know if that makes a difference.

Completely normal for 545RFE transmissions.
From FSM wrote:
It is controlled by a sensor monitoring transmission temperature via the TCM.
the TCM has programming that allows it to select a variety of shift schedules.
Shift schedule selection is dependent on the following:
² Shift lever position
² Throttle position
² Engine load
² Fluid temperature
² Software level

545RFE Shift Schedule Description is as follows:
545RFE Transmission Operation
The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is programmed to allow a select variety of shift schedules that are dependent on the following physical conditions:
*Selected gear range
*Throttle position
*Engine load
*Transmission fluid temperature
*TCM software level
The TCM will adjust the shift schedule of the transmission as environmental and driving conditions change.

-16F and below and with the transmission in the Drive position, the shift sequence will be 1st to 3rd until the ATF temperature reaches -12F. When placing the gear selector in either 1st or 2nd gear the transmission will be in 2nd gear only. There will be no torque converter lock up and switching off Overdrive will have no effect.

-12F and -10F the transmission shift sequences are as follows:
*No torque converter lock up
*No shift in to 5th gear
*Delayed 2-3 upshifts
*Delayed 3-4 upshifts
*High speed 4-2, 3-2, or 2-1 kickdown shifts are prevented
*High throttle opening shifts will be early
*Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 4th gear
-10F - 36F the transmission shift sequences are the same as above,except that 2-3 upshifts are not delayed. Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 4th gear.

40F - 80F All shift sequences are normal except there will be no torque converter lockup. Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 5th gear.
80F and 240F This is normal operating fluid temperature. The 545RFE will be in the normal shift sequence, including allowing torque converter lockup.

High Temperatures:
240F ATF or the engine coolant 244F, the transmission shift sequences will be as follows:
*delayed 2-3 upshift
*delayed 3-4 upshift
*3rd gear FEMCC from 30-40 MPH
*3rd gear PEMCC above 35 MPH
*Above 25 MPH the torque converter will not unlock unless the throttle is closed or if a wide open throttle, 2nd gear PEMCC to 1 kickdown is made.

EMCC = Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
NO EMCC = No Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
PEMCC = Partially Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
FEMCC = Full Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
Gradual to No EMCC = Gradual to No Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch

NOTE: Do not use anything other than ATF+4 transmission fluid.
Author:  ebbnflow [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
What are you using to do the quick learn? Anything other than a DRBIII or Snap On scanner can be finiky about doing a quick learn. I used autoenginuity to quick learn mine and it only worked once out of the 10 times I tried.
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
ebbnflow wrote:
What are you using to do the quick learn? Anything other than a DRBIII or Snap On scanner can be finiky about doing a quick learn. I used autoenginuity to quick learn mine and it only worked once out of the 10 times I tried.


I am using a Launch X431 with EZDiag App. I did a quick learn last week on a different CRD that needed a new transmission and it worked perfectly on the first try. That one shifts smooth now through all gears.

I had to pull this CRD out of the shop for a different project, so I haven't had to time to do much with it. I did check to see if EZDiag would graph the transmission temp yesterday. I turned the key on and connected. EZDiag said the trans temp was -20 degrees Celsius (ambient air temp was 31 F yesterday). So I thought I found the problem. But when I started the Jeep, the temperature went to 0 Celsius and started to climb as it warmed up. I ran it for about 10 minutes and the temp was up to 15 C. So that should be warm enough to go into 4th and 5th according to the post above.

However, I did note that EZDiag was showing input speed and output speed both at 0. I put it in reverse and the output speed increased to 1 mph as I crept backwards but the input speed stayed at zero. So the next step is to try EZDiag on another Jeep to see if it will actually read the input speed.

I will post more after I do some more testing.....
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
Thanks for that info!!!! It is extremely helpful to understand the logic of the TCM in order to diagnose this thing.




WWDiesel wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
Mine will shift into 4th when cold but there will be no TC lockup.
Once the transmission warms up the TC clutch will apply.
I'm using the Hemi TCM so I don't know if that makes a difference.

Completely normal for 545RFE transmissions.
From FSM wrote:
It is controlled by a sensor monitoring transmission temperature via the TCM.
the TCM has programming that allows it to select a variety of shift schedules.
Shift schedule selection is dependent on the following:
² Shift lever position
² Throttle position
² Engine load
² Fluid temperature
² Software level

545RFE Shift Schedule Description is as follows:
545RFE Transmission Operation
The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is programmed to allow a select variety of shift schedules that are dependent on the following physical conditions:
*Selected gear range
*Throttle position
*Engine load
*Transmission fluid temperature
*TCM software level
The TCM will adjust the shift schedule of the transmission as environmental and driving conditions change.

-16F and below and with the transmission in the Drive position, the shift sequence will be 1st to 3rd until the ATF temperature reaches -12F. When placing the gear selector in either 1st or 2nd gear the transmission will be in 2nd gear only. There will be no torque converter lock up and switching off Overdrive will have no effect.

-12F and -10F the transmission shift sequences are as follows:
*No torque converter lock up
*No shift in to 5th gear
*Delayed 2-3 upshifts
*Delayed 3-4 upshifts
*High speed 4-2, 3-2, or 2-1 kickdown shifts are prevented
*High throttle opening shifts will be early
*Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 4th gear
-10F - 36F the transmission shift sequences are the same as above,except that 2-3 upshifts are not delayed. Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 4th gear.

40F - 80F All shift sequences are normal except there will be no torque converter lockup. Switching off Overdrive will prevent shifts into 5th gear.
80F and 240F This is normal operating fluid temperature. The 545RFE will be in the normal shift sequence, including allowing torque converter lockup.

High Temperatures:
240F ATF or the engine coolant 244F, the transmission shift sequences will be as follows:
*delayed 2-3 upshift
*delayed 3-4 upshift
*3rd gear FEMCC from 30-40 MPH
*3rd gear PEMCC above 35 MPH
*Above 25 MPH the torque converter will not unlock unless the throttle is closed or if a wide open throttle, 2nd gear PEMCC to 1 kickdown is made.

EMCC = Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
NO EMCC = No Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
PEMCC = Partially Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
FEMCC = Full Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch
Gradual to No EMCC = Gradual to No Electronically Modulated Converter Clutch

NOTE: Do not use anything other than ATF+4 transmission fluid.
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
I hooked my scantool up to my other 2005 and it displays an input speed that is pretty close to the engine rpm. It also reads N, R, N, 1st when I move the gear shift.

Now I go back to the 2005 with the shifting problem. The scantool says zero on the input sensor and says N, N, N and 1st. So it is not recognizing any signal from the input sensor and it does not recognize when it is in R.

I swapped the input and output sensors and I still don't have an input signal. So it is not the sensor. I wiggled the wires and never saw any signal from the input.

Not sure where to go next? Maybe swap the TCM and see if the problem follows it?
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Transmission not going into 4 or 5
I think I found the issue. I removed the connector to the TCM and found a wire pinched under the bolt that secures the connector to the TCM. It is green with a white stripe.

The FSM says that the input speed sensor is wire T52 20 DG/WT. I think that stands for 20 gauge dark green with white stripe.

Just found the pinout for the connector. Looks like the pinched wire is definitely the input speed sensor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I just need to figure out how to fix it. Not much room to work.

Here is a link to the pinout in case anyone else needs it: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs ... 7cdeac.gif

I'll try to post a pic: Image

Image
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