LOST JEEPS :: View topic - New Diesel Jeep available in the US

Anyone who thinks that there is a niche for the Liberty with Patriot/Compass coming along is making a mistake

Quoted from the artilcle your link goes to:

"But automakers face stringent federal government emission regulations for diesel engines even though they are more fuel-efficient than gasoline. And some municipalities have banned diesel engines because of harmful emissions."

Bad press for diesels in general. Where are these municipalities? How would anything get delivered as most delivery trucks are diesel. I doubt legaly they could do such a ban.

Though built by Mercedes-Benz, the Grand Cherokee’s new 215-hp CRD will not feature the tri-star brand’s revolutionary Bluetec emissions-reducing technology, which is scheduled to debut this fall for the Mercedes E-Class car line.

Quote:

I also think that the problems showing up on the CRD, although small in percentage, will probably come back to haunt DCX on their GC diesel launch, unless they can reverse the trend. Even though the teething issues is probably a small percentage of overall CRD sales, it's having a bigger impact than DCX realizes. The level of scrutiny on the CRD has been incredible - I L.O.S.T. track of the number of inquiry's about the CRD's power, economy and reliability from co-workers and even strangers at the pump. Also surprising to me was the number of non CRD owners who bring up the question of egr and transmission failures on the CRD. Internet automotive forums have a tremendous impact on information gathering and Google makes most of these forums a mouse click away for even novice computer users.

Nevermind the new Bluetec stuff, what does DCX intend to do about the old-tech CRD nuisance items on the GC? Trany that can take the touque of the 3.0L? CCV and the whole oily CAC issue? EGR hardware? Software to make it run without bucking & shuddering? DCX has a lot of homework to do to make this model acceptable to buyers in the $40K+ for a vehicle crowd.

the Cherokee with the 4.7 V-8 gets 20-21 consistantly

Ripster wrote:

the Cherokee with the 4.7 V-8 gets 20-21 consistantly

My friend has one and is lucky to get 17mpg on the highway. Even that requres careful throttle control and sppeds under 65 mph. In addition, that 4.7 V8 sucks for towing. I've been to the mountains with him when towing a couple dirt bikes on a utility trailer... what a dog :roll:

Author:	Taz [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	New Diesel Jeep available in the US
Chrysler to roll out diesel Cherokee The SUV aims to tap success of Jeep Liberty model, growing alternative fuel market. Josee Valcourt / The Detroit News Riding on the success of its Jeep Liberty diesel, the Chrysler Group plans to begin selling a diesel-powered Grand Cherokee SUV in the United States early next year. Full story Here: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... 10346/1148 While its not a KJ or a Wrangler this is very encouraging.

Author:	Guest [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:29 am ]
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Now that is exciting. Too bad they STILL can not be sold in the CARB states, even with Bluetec. The CARB requirements must be getting tighter in addition to the EPA requirements in 2007. They really need to get their heads out of their rear ends and let Bluetec in. 25% fuel savings in a state like California (basically it's own country) would be huge for our country as a whole.

Author:	naturist [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:59 am ]
Post subject:	EPA
The EPA has always been adamant about emmissions control systems NOT requiring any action on the part of owners. This is no doubt because especially early on emmissions controls always cut mileage, and EPA didn't like the idea of owners being able to easily recover good mileage by "forgetting" to do what was needed to keep emmissions systems going. Thus EPA has been much less than thrilled about Blue Tec: it requires periodic replenishment of the urea tank. Nevermind that urea is one of the cheapest chemicals known to mankind, nevermind that its use IMPROVES mileage, and nevermind that the system can be engineered to go a long, long way before that service is needed, and that it can be built such that you GOTTA take it to have it done. But I digress: the diesel Cherokee is a welcome sign, even though _I_ won't be buying one.

Author:	KJbob [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:56 am ]
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Looks like Old Navy was right about this. My dealer told me last January no diesel Grand Cherokee until '08 or '09. A diesel Grand Cherokee is on my short list for my next vehicle in a few years. I agree with others; this is really good news!

Author:	0311_DoC [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:25 am ]
Post subject:
Now if they would really get their heads out of their rears and put em in the wranglers for the U.S. market that would be great as well

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Author:	vtdog [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:44 pm ]
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My belief is that by putting the diesel in the GC DCX shows a few things: 1. They need to prop us sales of the "signature" (and most profitable) model for the Jeep line which have been in the dumper. 2. Jeep has learned via demographics of purchasers and probably lurking here that the recent Liberty CRD buyers are both passionate and dedicated to their purchase. 3. DCX will not take the trouble to put the CRD (or bluetec, or any diesel) in the Liberty line as it is going to go away. Anyone who thinks that there is a niche for the Liberty with Patriot/Compass coming along is making a mistake. My personal belief is that the FWD versions will NOT sell as demonstrated by the fact that Saturn cannot give away their FWD SUV, but keep it only as loss leader with high MPG to get people in the showroom (but thats another story in itself). 4. Putting all the points together, DCX will only offer the diesel in a vehicle that bootst its image, AND makes a high profit margin. They know that diesel people will pay a premium for the engine, only now they will force the buyer into a high profit vehicle first. 5. As Don Corleone said "its just business"

Author:	Ripster [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:30 pm ]
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Hopefully the numbers will be better the Cherokee with the 4.7 V-8 gets 20-21 consistantly and they are stating that 19 and 23 for the Diesel? Will need better than that to pay the premium that a Mercedes diesel will add to the sticker.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:46 pm ]
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Quote: Anyone who thinks that there is a niche for the Liberty with Patriot/Compass coming along is making a mistake DCX has already built the bigger platform for the new Liberty replacement - it's being used first on the Dodge Nitro. But you can bet the newer Liberty replacement, in addition to being longer, wider and different, will also cost more. The price point of the new Compass/Patriot is near where the Liberty started out in 2002. Capability wise, it looks like less for more. I don't think the Compass/Patriot vehicles are going to be anything but average sellers, once initial sales settle down, leaving room for a larger KK vehicle. I also think that the problems showing up on the CRD, although small in percentage, will probably come back to haunt DCX on their GC diesel launch, unless they can reverse the trend. Even though the teething issues is probably a small percentage of overall CRD sales, it's having a bigger impact than DCX realizes. The level of scrutiny on the CRD has been incredible - I lost track of the number of inquiry's about the CRD's power, economy and reliability from co-workers and even strangers at the pump. Also surprising to me was the number of non CRD owners who bring up the question of egr and transmission failures on the CRD. Internet automotive forums have a tremendous impact on information gathering and Google makes most of these forums a mouse click away for even novice computer users.

Author:	kjfishman [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:49 am ]
Post subject:	press release comment
Quoted from the artilcle your link goes to: "But automakers face stringent federal government emission regulations for diesel engines even though they are more fuel-efficient than gasoline. And some municipalities have banned diesel engines because of harmful emissions." Bad press for diesels in general. Where are these municipalities? How would anything get delivered as most delivery trucks are diesel. I doubt legaly they could do such a ban.

Author:	Hero [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: press release comment
After having worked at a Jeep dealer for the better part of 2005, I wasn't really that impressed by the 05-06 JGC. It is more civil compared to its predecessors, but still lacking in many aspects. Residual values on an 05-06 JGC are some of the worst I have EVER seen in the car business, I'm talking Hyundai level. Most new JGC's will loose have their market value within the first six months, no kidding whatsoever. Still though, a 3.0L Diesel engine would certainly help them out in every way as long as they don't limit the engine to a higher level (pricier) model. I think a diesel engine package similiar to what the Libby has on the GC would be feasible, if its in the $3k-4k range though... DCX will be shooting themselves in the foot kjfishman wrote: Quoted from the artilcle your link goes to: "But automakers face stringent federal government emission regulations for diesel engines even though they are more fuel-efficient than gasoline. And some municipalities have banned diesel engines because of harmful emissions." Bad press for diesels in general. Where are these municipalities? How would anything get delivered as most delivery trucks are diesel. I doubt legaly they could do such a ban. Now see, this is what really gets me hot The only emissions that a diesel puts out that are any worse than what a gasser does are higher levels of sulfur and NOx. Both of those can easily be contained with certain catalytic converters or nullified by using biodiesel. I hate all these ignorant morons who think that diesel technology hasn't gotten any better since the 1970's when they were putting the rackity, clackity "dirty diesel" engines in Cadillacs

Author:	Ranger1 [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:
And yet from this article, claims are being made that the V6 GC diesel won't have any Bluetec emissions technology on it... Quote: Though built by Mercedes-Benz, the Grand Cherokee’s new 215-hp CRD will not feature the tri-star brand’s revolutionary Bluetec emissions-reducing technology, which is scheduled to debut this fall for the Mercedes E-Class car line. With only a 2 mpg increase over the 4.7L gas engine, this might not be a slam dunk. If there really isn't any BlueTec emissions equipment on it, that leaves one dirty alternative to reduce NoX... the dreaded egr, cranked to the max (that might help explain the low mpg estimates)... I think we all know what that could mean if they use the same valve as our CRD's From here: http://wardsdealer.com/latest/cherokee_diesel_liberty/

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:50 am ]
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Remember, the CRD was rated 21/26, and with decent fuel, I've been seeing 25/32, once I learned how to "drive diesel". Could be the same thing with the JGC, with people actually seeing in the high 20's once they hit the road. For both the VW TDI's and to some extent the CRD, the EPA mileage ratings seem to have been an exercise in understatement. Regardless, I'm sure Consumer Reports will tell us it only gets 11 MPG city.

Author:	RFCRD [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:11 am ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: Quote: I also think that the problems showing up on the CRD, although small in percentage, will probably come back to haunt DCX on their GC diesel launch, unless they can reverse the trend. Even though the teething issues is probably a small percentage of overall CRD sales, it's having a bigger impact than DCX realizes. The level of scrutiny on the CRD has been incredible - I L.O.S.T. track of the number of inquiry's about the CRD's power, economy and reliability from co-workers and even strangers at the pump. Also surprising to me was the number of non CRD owners who bring up the question of egr and transmission failures on the CRD. Internet automotive forums have a tremendous impact on information gathering and Google makes most of these forums a mouse click away for even novice computer users. Nevermind the new Bluetec stuff, what does DCX intend to do about the old-tech CRD nuisance items on the GC? Trany that can take the touque of the 3.0L? CCV and the whole oily CAC issue? EGR hardware? Software to make it run without bucking & shuddering? DCX has a lot of homework to do to make this model acceptable to buyers in the $40K+ for a vehicle crowd.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:56 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Nevermind the new Bluetec stuff, what does DCX intend to do about the old-tech CRD nuisance items on the GC? Trany that can take the touque of the 3.0L? CCV and the whole oily CAC issue? EGR hardware? Software to make it run without bucking & shuddering? DCX has a lot of homework to do to make this model acceptable to buyers in the $40K+ for a vehicle crowd. True - Jeep/DCX now has a reputation in the US which is unfortunately not good on their diesel launch. If I step back from my enthusiam for diesel vehicles in general and the CRD in particular, and look at their posture from just an analytical viewpoint, DCX will now have to prove themselves to prospective diesel buyers on the quality, support and committment issues. Let's assume for the moment you are a prospective Jeep GC diesel buyer - at this point in time, you look at their record with the CRD and ask yourself these questions: 1. How do I know that they resolved the major issues identified on the CRD ? Oil blowby, tranny reliability/driviability and egr that will last more than 15K miles? 2. If my brand new diesel GC ends up in the shop, will I be hearing " I'm sorry, STAR has that part (gp's, egr, turbo etc) on national restriction/backorder, it will take 2 to 3 weeks to get the part in sir. This is a brand new engine for the US and no one has ever worked on one yet. We do have a tech just back from diesel school, but he's on vacation for the next 2 weeks. Or we might borrow a diesel tech from our Dodge Cummins store - it can't be that different from the CRD!" 3. [Fast forward to 2 years in the future] - Well, you know they discontinued the diesel GC sir, it was after all, just a marketing test. DCX looked at the business case for making the GC diesel engine meet the new 2009 EPA requirements, and they just couldn't make the numbers work out. So where does that leave me you ask? While I'm willing to deal with the CRD's issues, most customers are not. I'll keep getting it repaired until it's running correctly. But that's not how you build a growing customer base. Customers need a vehicle that DCX will back with the same or better level of support of any gasolene vehicle they sell. They can probably solve the tranny issue by using a Mercedes transmission for the GC, but the oil /intercooler/egr issue is one that is still accumulating on every CRD out there and building reputation for DCX every day. This will have to be dealt with on the CRD at some point if DCX wants to avoid living down something similar to their minivan transmission reputation fiasco. So, in spite of how much I like my CRD, I see DCX's reputation for a new diesel launch in the US as seriously in trouble. Instead of pointing to a near flawless launch of the CRD, they've painted themselves into a corner with the CRD's unanswered issues - not because issues happened, but because they have not yet resolved them on such a small base of vehicles. How will they handle a much larger base of diesel GC issues? For better or worse, the way they support the small base of existing CRD's will be the metric that prospective diesel customers will measure DCX with. Nothing more useful to a prospective customer as a metric than past performance... just ask GM.

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Author:	kj lad [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:43 am ]
Post subject:
Diesel GC's are already available in the UK. We have a 3.0 V6 mercedes engine that is smooth, quiet and powerful. I test drove one and was very impressed. Look on www.jeep.co.uk Ian

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:52 am ]
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We are aware of the European GC's. There is also a European Liberty (Cherokee), but the US launch, with it's engine/emissions PCM software totally re-written for US EPA emissions laws, has suffered from the modifications to meet those requirements. It wouldn't surprise me to eventually find out that the transmission shuddering and eventual failure is related to the egr-engine-transmission computer mapping. This is probably why we in the US cannot use the reputation that the European versions of these vehicles enjoy as an indicator of US reliability. Look at the difference in the Euro and US versions of the Cherokee/Liberty in egr/transmission reliability.

Author:	NJBill [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Ripster wrote: the Cherokee with the 4.7 V-8 gets 20-21 consistantly My friend has one and is lucky to get 17mpg on the highway. Even that requres careful throttle control and sppeds under 65 mph. In addition, that 4.7 V8 sucks for towing. I've been to the mountains with him when towing a couple dirt bikes on a utility trailer... what a dog .

Author:	Hero [ Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:11 am ]
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NJBill wrote: Ripster wrote: the Cherokee with the 4.7 V-8 gets 20-21 consistantly My friend has one and is lucky to get 17mpg on the highway. Even that requres careful throttle control and sppeds under 65 mph. In addition, that 4.7 V8 sucks for towing. I've been to the mountains with him when towing a couple dirt bikes on a utility trailer... what a dog . Agreed, the 4.7L V-8 = POS I'd trade a 4.7L for a Dodge 318 5.2L V-8 any day of the week and even throw in a few large dipped cone from Dairy Queen On the UK Jeep site it states the 3.0L V-6 Diesel has 215 HP and 376 TQ or what equates to being 71 HP/litre and 125 TQ/litre compared to the KJ CRD's 57 HP/litre and 105/TQ/litre. The 2.8L CRD engine was already North America's most powerful engine per litre and it looks like the 3.0L V-6 diesel for the JGC really ain't no joke either. That thing has some serious tourque output for its size, I'm really thinking its going to be a monster compared to the 4.7L V-8 and even the HEMI BTW, here are the max power ratings for the 4.7L and 5.7L HEMI 4.7L - 235 HP & 305 TQ 5.7L HEMI - 330 HP & 375 TQ *Has less TQ than 3.0L diesel!!!*

Author:	Joe Romas [ Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Though built by Mercedes-Benz, the Grand Cherokee’s new 215-hp CRD will not feature the tri-star brand’s revolutionary Bluetec emissions-reducing technology, which is scheduled to debut this fall for the Mercedes E-Class car line. The article says "Uses Blue Tech Technoligy" but it dose not specifically say it's a MB engine. Is it this one? http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9 It's a 3.0L and a V6. Poking around the VM site you'll see that Chrysler has used 500,000 VM diesels

Author:	Taz [ Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:08 am ]
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I did a little research on the UK Jeep web site and the CRD is actually cheaper than the 5.7L HEMI. That would put a limited CRD GC at around $40,000.