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CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplugged
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91681		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JohnM [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplugged
Hi All:
I have a 2006 Liberty with the 2.8L crd engine. I thought the head gasket was blown, but now I'm not sure. This past January, it started blowing tons of white/gray smoke. When I pulled over and shut it off, the exhaust pipe was glowing red hot near the front flex pipe. I threw snow on it for a good 30 seconds before it started to cool down. It ran fine, only thing was smoke and a burning exhaust pipe.

Anyway, for a yuk, I just tried unplugging the electrical connection to each injector, one at a time. with any one of the injectors unplugged, there is no smoke!

Now I'm thinking it might not be the head gasket, but I really have no idea. If it is the head gasket, the local Stealer says $5 to $6k to fix it. If there's a chance it's not the head gasket, I'd take it in to get it diagnosed.

Anyone have any ideas? Head gasket? Injector? Other?

Thanks!
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
I would think that if you left any one injector unplugged long enough to purged the leaking coolant out, that you would find one cylinder that behaves differently. But, you can pull the glow plugs, and the ASD relay and crank the engine and see coolant coming from the offending cylinder.

As for the red exhaust, sounds like you may have a plugged cat, or the rockers aren't opening the valves far enough. Either way, you almost certainly need to pull the head and replace the rockers, exhaust valves...
Don't let a dealer touch it, they will rob you and leave you with a broken jeep. PM sent.
Author:  Mountainman [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
If you post location, and number of miles on the jeep that will help.

I wouldn't run it at all as you may drop a valve. And, sounds like the cat may be plugged
Author:  JohnM [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
I'm in Ontario Canada (north of Toronto). The Jeep has 198000 km (about 124000mi.)
Thanks for the info!

So sounds like it's the head gasket if I'm looking for antifreeze...
anyway, haven't driven the Jeep since it happened.
Author:  casm [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
JohnM wrote:
I'm in Ontario Canada (north of Toronto). The Jeep has 198000 km (about 124000mi.)
Thanks for the info!

So sounds like it's the head gasket if I'm looking for antifreeze...
anyway, haven't driven the Jeep since it happened.


And since you have to get down to that point, may as well also replace the timing belt, tensioners, and water pump; take care of the rocker arms; and do the valves.

At least you'll be taken care of for another 100,000 miles until the timing belt needs to be replaced again, and another 100,000 (or longer) on top of that for the valvetrain.
Author:  layback40 [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
What were you doing just before you found the red hot exhaust. If you were driving it like you stole it, then red hot exhaust to be expected. HG leaking is unlikely to get turbo that hot.
Is the coolant tank dirty or bubbles? If HG is gone they normally leak both ways. Is it using coolant? Can you tell us what the exhaust smells like?
I had a turbo seal fail on an earlier model diesel jeep, made a lot of smoke & drank oil.
Maybe the stealer (dealer) price was to get you to go away.
Does it run rough?
Are there any codes? Is the CEL on?
Much more diagnostic info needed before pulling it down.
Author:  krb [ Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
And what does the exhaust smell like? White smoke could be coolant, a sweet smell or unburnt fuel, which would smell like diesel...
Author:  JohnM [ Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
The exhaust smells like fuel, there is no oil consumption, and the oil is not contaminated with coolant. There is no pressure build-up, oil, or other contamination in the coolant reservoir. There is no loss of coolant. When it happened, I was driving normally for about 10 minutes at 50-60 mph (trip to the grocery store...). It still runs like nothing's wrong.

The turbo seal sounds like a possibility, Thanks for that one! The engine light isn't on, but I'll plug in the scanner and check for codes anyway.

I suspect it to be the head gasket, but the lack of other typical indicators as mentioned above, and the fact that unplugging any one injector eliminated the smoke, is what made me wonder. If I was 10 years younger I wouldn't think twice about finding the problem, tearing it down, and repairing it (I've done a few VW diesel heads, rings, timing belts, etc. in a past life ).

This Liberty is nearly mint, Krown'd yearly and well maintained since new. Now though, since I can't find a diesel shop that'll touch it, it'll probably be going to the scrap yard if no one around here wants it to fix themselves. It's a shame though.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom on this guys, it is much appreciated!
Author:  krb [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
OK, I'm going out on a limb here and going to really show my ignorance.

IF exhaust doesn't smell like coolant AND there's no mixing of coolant and oil, the fact that he can unplug an injector and make it quit makes me think it is the pressure or fuel volume supply? It can fuel 3 cylinders but can't power 4 thus incomplete combustion?

Again, I barely know what I'm talking about here. I have a grasp of my Cummins' rotary pump system but I'm not very familiar with common rail diesels. When an injector went bad in my B series I got lots of white smoke smelling like fuel...
Author:  JohnM [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Hi krb, thanks for chiming in...
I was wondering if it could be something like that, but I didn't know if it was possible. I'm gonna go out and plug in the scanner to see if there are any fuel system related codes. No cel light on though, hmm...

Thanks for the info!
Author:  krb [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Again, not sure how common rail compares to rotary but if injectors don't get enough pressure to properly pop, then they may just drip or squirt funny and that won't volatilize, thus unburned fuel out the exhaust.

So if you disconnect any one, and then the rest suddenly get enough pressure to spray correctly? Could a common rail do that?
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
No loss of coolant, therefore head gasket is fine.
No loss of oil, therefore turbo should be fine.

It’s seems like a fuel system problem.
If your scan tool can read fuel rail pressure, that could offer a clue.
Fuel rail pressure at idle should roughly 5000 psi.
Cruising at 50 mph should be about 15000 psi.

Have you tried driving it?
Does the smoke clear up once everything is fully warmed up?

It’s rare for an injection pump to go bad. More often it’s the injectors.
Of course, check for fuel leaks.
Author:  JohnM [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
SOLVED!!
Thanks to mountainman, casm, layback40, krb and flash7210!
I think you guys were zeroing in on the problem by prying enough info out of me!!

Anyway, krb and flash7210, you guys gave me hope that it wasn't the head gasket, and inspired me to plug in my scanner, even though the cel wasn't on (yes, the cel lights up on starting, so it's not burned out...)
There were 3 error codes present: p1252, p1140, p0299
In summary, these codes indicated a vacuum solenoid problem which brought about a turbo underboost condition.

I looked up the p1252 code on this forum, and found a simple check for it. (thks to papaindigo, geordi and GDE!)

I bypassed the solenoid per their instructions and voila! no smoke! and even noticeable power increase with the turbo underboost corrected! Off I go to get a $40 vacuum solenoid!! I had no idea a vacuum solenoid could cause such a scary problem!

You guys literally saved this little Liberty from an untimely and undeserving fate! Thankyou! Thankyou! Thankyou!
:pepper: :-)r
Author:  casm [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
flash7210 wrote:
If your scan tool can read fuel rail pressure, that could offer a clue.
Fuel rail pressure at idle should roughly 5000 psi.
Cruising at 50 mph should be about 15000 psi.


Out of curiosity, how much variation either side of those numbers would be considered normal?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Please keep in mind, the small vacuum hoses/tubes associated with the turbo vane controls can also develop small cracks or leaks that will greatly affect boost and engine performance. :wink:
See this thread for additional information and pictures:> http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=944710#p944710

Here is the turbo vacuum solenoid bypass test procedure in case anyone else would like to test theirs.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=934147#p934147

Associated "P" Codes:
P0299 -- Turbo/super charger – low boost Mechanical fault
P1252 -- Vacuum Reservoir Solenoid Short Circuit
-- Faulty Vacuum Reservoir Solenoid
-- Vacuum Reservoir Solenoid harness is open or shorted
-- Vacuum Reservoir Solenoid circuit poor electrical connection
-- The Engine Control Module (ECM) detected a short to ground on the Vacuum Reservoir Solenoid control circuit

Vacuum Solenoid PN:- 4606226AC :google:
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
casm wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
If your scan tool can read fuel rail pressure, that could offer a clue.
Fuel rail pressure at idle should roughly 5000 psi.
Cruising at 50 mph should be about 15000 psi.


Out of curiosity, how much variation either side of those numbers would be considered normal?

I wish I could cite some documentation about this.
I can only go with my observations.
Just take it for what it is.

First, it depends on the ECM tune used.
The GDE Eco tune has lower rail pressures.

For a stock tune,
at idle: roughly 4800 to 6000 psi
Cruising at 50-60 mph, about 14000 to 16000 psi.

Of course, when accelerating, or going up a hill, or moving a heavy load, it all depends on what your right foot is demanding.
And there’s other factors such as cold/hot engine and environmental conditions.
Rail pressure will be slightly higher when intake air is colder. Although I don’t know exactly what the temperature threshold is there.
Again, just citing my observations.
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Quote:
I bypassed the solenoid per their instructions and voila! no smoke! and even noticeable power increase with the turbo underboost corrected! Off I go to get a $40 vacuum solenoid!! I had no idea a vacuum solenoid could cause such a scary problem!

Weird.
Whenever I have a underboost condition I get lots of black smoke. Not white.
Could be because of a different climate.

Glad that you have isolated the problem.
Author:  JohnM [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Flash7210, I wondered about the different smoke color too - it's strange. But the engine is definitely running clean and strong now.
Thanks again for your help!

WWDiesel, that was the info I found, though I found the "old post" you referred to. Same pics and info.
Thank you for the additional info and links for the vacuum line service. I will definitely check mine carefully.

Cheers!
Author:  krb [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
Good deal! Glad when the issues end up being relatively cheap and easy fixes!!!

It often takes several other respective's to get one to take off their blinders and think out of their box and. I know it does me...

Cheers,
Author:  rankom [ Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD blows, white smoke, UNLESS any ONE injector is unplu
good thing you resolved your problem, but at 124,000miles like you said we usually go for head gasket rockers injectors test and so on... im surprised that your rockers held together so far. also check your turbo charger.
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