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Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=92625		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  1David1 [ Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
I recently bought a 2005 Liberty CRD with ~175k miles with no previous knowledge of VM Motori engines but excited to get a rare Jeep diesel. It had 3 DTC codes but seemed to run fine. Codes were P0299 (Turbo underboost), P0401 (EGR flow insufficient), P1265 (Glow plug#3 control circuit low).
I'm new to the CRD but my research indicated these weren't threatening the health of the engine. After driving for several weeks, one drive ended with the motor loosing power while at highway speed. The motor soon came to a stop - smoothly, no sudden jerk or clunk. I had it towed home for research. I found a post on this forum of similar DTC codes where their engine would start up again after a few minutes. Several days after mine stopped running, I tried starting it. It cranked for a while but didn't start. I gave the starter a rest and tried again. This time the engine stopped turning and would not turn anymore. I checked the oil to make sure some was left but the quantity was way higher than normal. Days went by. Then I found fuel leaking from the oil drain plug. (previously oil would leak slowly from the plug - I know, new crush washer)
More days went by. Getting back to the project, I found the #1 cylinder fuel injector had partially ejected from the head - sitting about 3/4" higher than the rest with the hold-down screw sheared off. Screw head and crows foot sitting loosely in place. No coolant found in the oil.
My guess is that the #1 fuel injector poured in far too much fuel causing lack of power and slowly developed into a hydrolock. Hopefully no connecting rod damage since it didn't lock until turned with the starter. I have not removed enough parts to get to the crank bolt to turn that.
I think my next steps are to remove the injectors and then turn the crank bolt to see which cylinders have fluid coming out (and what type).
Questions:
Any other potential causes that I should check?
What specific tests should I do to make sure other things are not damaged (compression check, etc)?
Any other preventative maintenance/upgrades I should do while getting this deep into the engine? (Sounds like rocker arms need replacing as a high mileage maintenance item. I'll check the timing belt and do that if needed. Fuel filter.)
Are there posts that cover the the original DTC's?
Thanks for any help.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
Pull the injector and see if the tip end of it is damaged. If it is, the engine has dropped an exhaust valve and you will have to pull the head to ascertain how bad the damage is. In most cases it will require a new new head and sometimes a replacement of the piston & piston liner depending on how severe the damage is.
With the injector being pushed up out of its mounting, I highly suspect a broken valve! :grim:

Some of these engines do this when they get close to the higher mileage numbers around 200k. We still do not know 100% for sure what causes this, but highly suspect long term EGR operation (soot injection) plays a leading or major role in the valves early failure.

See this post and thread for additional pictures on the subject.
viewtopic.php?p=937038#p937038

As for DTC's, see the factory service manuals along with several other manuals are available for viewing or downloading at: Index of /manuals/Jeep/KJ

Image
Author:  geordi [ Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
I'm not so sure this is a dropped valve, it would be the first time I've heard about one ejecting an injector as a result. This definitely needs more diagnosis, if you would like some assistance / help in person, hit me with an email (address below) and we can go from there. I agree that the best course at the moment is to pull all the injectors and the serpentine parts, so you can turn the engine by hand and feel what is actually going on. I'd also pull the glow plugs if you don't have the stock elbow in the way, to see what if any damage they have on themselves.... If the #1 plug is ALSO trashed, that does raise the chances of a valve drop, but the presentation is weird at this point.
Author:  1David1 [ Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
I got the injector and glow plug out of #1 and they both are damaged.
Image

The injector hole still has something plugging it and metal shards at the bottom.
I need to figure out how to get the fan shroud out to get access to the crank bolt and I need an injector puller to get the others out. When I pull the head or learn anything new, I'll add an update.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
The fan shroud lifts straight up after you take out the two 10mm bolts, you WILL have to remove the fan at the same time as the shroud. Popular method is to use a deep socket to push through the fan pulley and jam against a nut at the 4 o'clock position so you can use a 36mm wrench to take off the fan hub from the pulley.

With the damage to the injector.... I see a likely dropped valve and a trashed head. Whether you can recover the engine will depend now on how badly the piston is damaged and IF it will rotate after the head is removed. Don't bother trying to rotate it now, it is likely hard-stopped b/c of the valve and you will have to disassemble the engine anyway. Just start unbolting EVERYTHING you can see, it pretty much all has to come out.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
geordi wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a dropped valve, it would be the first time I've heard about one ejecting an injector as a result.

Well now you have! :lol: I had actually read of one other doing this a few years ago I believe on this forum or on JKJeeps?
I am anxious to see pictures of the insides of the combustion chamber. I suspect its going to be ugly... :grim:
Author:  1David1 [ Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
WWDiesel was right! Both exhaust valves busted off and severely damaged the head. See pictures (one of the head, 2 of the piston).
I'm interested in thoughts on whether the piston sleeve is still good. It has a few nicks right at the top but the bore looks good on a quick examination.
Image

Image

Image

A rebuild will be expensive. Here is what I know about what would make a good rebuild:
new head/head gasket
new piston (1 only?, all 4?)
check the crank and connecting rods for damage
new crank/rod bearings, rings/honing
rocker arms/lifters
ARP studs
timing belt kit (idparts)
serpentine belt kit
EGR delete/Weeks (someone still selling this?)
glow plugs
thermostat
a few sensors that are hard to get to
ProVent
hoses/gaskets

Any cautions - like don't waste your money? Thanks for the help.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
Thats ugly!!!
I suspect with that much damage to the top of the piston, the rings or ring lands are most likely damaged and it is a good possibility that the piston liner could have a hairline crack? :(
Author:  1David1 [ Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
I found a 2005 engine (probably 200k+ miles) nearby and it will be easier and cheaper to rebuild that. The wrecking yard ran it and got hot compression in the 270-300 range (assuming psi). At least I can start with something that doesn't have damage.

Anything missing from my list of rebuild items?
Author:  user113 [ Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
You'll probably have to cobble up a Week's kit yourself, but it really isn't very involved. Particularly if the engine's already on a stand.

You might want to consider replacing all the exhaust valves if you end up taking the head off. The stock ones seem to get flaky as they age.

Though only indirectly engine related, it would also be a good time to install an in-tank lift pump.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
There is still a few EGR bypass kits still available.
https://kbdieselperformance.com/Intake- ... p133880322
Author:  Dieseljeepluvr2 [ Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
I have them for $79.95 Shipped CONUS. A little more for international. By the way Lost Jeeps has locked me out (DieselJeepLuvr) for some reason. Hoping to get it resolved if I can get ahold of an administrator. Emall me

Rob
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
Dieseljeepluvr2 wrote:
I have them for $79.95 Shipped CONUS. A little more for international. By the way Lost Jeeps has locked me out (DieselJeepLuvr) for some reason. Hoping to get it resolved if I can get ahold of an administrator.
Rob

Try it now, updated your account (DieselJeepLuvr) No idea what happened to it!
Message me if you still have any problems. (message button at bottom)
wwdiesel
Author:  DieselJeepLuvr [ Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost power, stopped running, fuel in oil pan
Success! Thanks WW! I was trying to figure out who I P'd O this time! :goink:
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