LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Crd fuel things

So I went the other day to fill up my CRD and there was a warning on the pump about the fuel being different (low in sulfer???) and that some cars and vehicles can't use it. Is my '05 in trouble? Also since no new CRD's are coming to America because of emmision standards is my jeep a problem and will it go up in value?
Thanks guys for any answers.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity.

i.e. when you start putting ULSD in your 05/06 liberty (and most places won't have it till close to next year), it'll run fine, but the engine logevity MAY be SLIGHTLY affected if you don't compensate for the lubricity factor. I've heard of some bottled additives, but adding about 20% biodiesel is a great way to do so as well, and it cleans the fuel system, too.

LSD (without the U) is the normal quality stuff today, they've start documenting on the pump that it's not RNHSD (really nasty high sulphur diesel).

Dan

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity.
Dan

dgeist wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity.
Dan

Incorrect. The process of removing sulfur tends to reduce lubricity. However, I believe they are adding back in lubricants, so you engine life should be fine. Sulfur itself is not a lubricant, tho.

As an aside, have ya'll heard of any tangible differences between B-fuels made from different stocks? I'm using B100 as well as various percentages mixed in with petro. It's made at a facility that uses chicken fat for a base. I always seem to have a slight drop in fuel economy when I'm running it, yet others report better fuel economy when using soybean or other vegatable-based biodiesels in their CRDs. Just wanted to get the scientific reason for that if there is one...

Dan

Well chicken stock is better in soup than in fuel...
"Pinto" Bean will add "horse"power...

DarbyWalters wrote:

Well chicken stock is better in soup than in fuel...
"Pinto" Bean will add "horse"power...

Hahahahahahaha!!! But how true.

See, I'm glad I qualilfied that with a "please correct me"... Thanks for keeping me inline

The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired.

oldnavy wrote:

The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired.

2002 - 2007 = 5 years.

What are you referring to with 10 year run?

valkraider wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired.

2002 - 2007 = 5 years.

What are you referring to with 10 year run?

Because a 4x4 doubles anything that a 2x4 does...including time :wink:

The shared parts routine has be very successful in the LX series cars and should work for the Jeep & Dodge Nitro like Dodge Charger/Magnum and Chrysler 300C. I believe the Caliber is going to share a platform with the new small Jeep Compass so the likelyhood of the Nitro/Liberty being shared platforms looks good to me.

Author:	Libertylady [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Crd fuel things
So I went the other day to fill up my CRD and there was a warning on the pump about the fuel being different (low in sulfer???) and that some cars and vehicles can't use it. Is my '05 in trouble? Also since no new CRD's are coming to America because of emmision standards is my jeep a problem and will it go up in value? Thanks guys for any answers.

Author:	kjfishman [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
Libertylady wrote: So I went the other day to fill up my CRD and there was a warning on the pump about the fuel being different (low in sulfer???) and that some cars and vehicles can't use it. Is my '05 in trouble? Also since no new CRD's are coming to America because of emmision standards is my jeep a problem and will it go up in value? Thanks guys for any answers. The 05 / 06 CRD models can use eithor the LSD (low sulpher) or USLD (new ultrta low sulpher) fuel, All 07 on up diesels will require the USLD. So coming to the party early was a good thing.

Author:	dgeist [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity. i.e. when you start putting ULSD in your 05/06 liberty (and most places won't have it till close to next year), it'll run fine, but the engine logevity MAY be SLIGHTLY affected if you don't compensate for the lubricity factor. I've heard of some bottled additives, but adding about 20% biodiesel is a great way to do so as well, and it cleans the fuel system, too. LSD (without the U) is the normal quality stuff today, they've start documenting on the pump that it's not RNHSD (really nasty high sulphur diesel). Dan

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:
dgeist wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity. i.e. when you start putting ULSD in your 05/06 liberty (and most places won't have it till close to next year), it'll run fine, but the engine logevity MAY be SLIGHTLY affected if you don't compensate for the lubricity factor. I've heard of some bottled additives, but adding about 20% biodiesel is a great way to do so as well, and it cleans the fuel system, too. LSD (without the U) is the normal quality stuff today, they've start documenting on the pump that it's not RNHSD (really nasty high sulphur diesel). Dan You are wrong.

Author:	Special Agent [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:
dgeist wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity. Dan Incorrect. The process of removing sulfur tends to reduce lubricity. However, I believe they are adding back in lubricants, so you engine life should be fine. Sulfur itself is not a lubricant, tho.

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Author:	dgeist [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Special Agent wrote: dgeist wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but simply put, the sulphur content is a inversely proportional trade-off between emmiisons and lubricity. Dan Incorrect. The process of removing sulfur tends to reduce lubricity. However, I believe they are adding back in lubricants, so you engine life should be fine. Sulfur itself is not a lubricant, tho. See, I'm glad I qualilfied that with a "please correct me"... Thanks for keeping me inline As an aside, have ya'll heard of any tangible differences between B-fuels made from different stocks? I'm using B100 as well as various percentages mixed in with petro. It's made at a facility that uses chicken fat for a base. I always seem to have a slight drop in fuel economy when I'm running it, yet others report better fuel economy when using soybean or other vegatable-based biodiesels in their CRDs. Just wanted to get the scientific reason for that if there is one... Dan

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:
dgeist wrote: As an aside, have ya'll heard of any tangible differences between B-fuels made from different stocks? I'm using B100 as well as various percentages mixed in with petro. It's made at a facility that uses chicken fat for a base. I always seem to have a slight drop in fuel economy when I'm running it, yet others report better fuel economy when using soybean or other vegatable-based biodiesels in their CRDs. Just wanted to get the scientific reason for that if there is one... Dan Well chicken stock is better in soup than in fuel... "Pinto" Bean will add "horse"power...

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:
DarbyWalters wrote: Well chicken stock is better in soup than in fuel... "Pinto" Bean will add "horse"power... Hahahahahahaha!!! But how true.

Author:	GreggD [ Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:20 am ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: DarbyWalters wrote: Well chicken stock is better in soup than in fuel... "Pinto" Bean will add "horse"power... Hahahahahahaha!!! But how true. I wouldn't want to be behind you if you add the "blossoms of the fart plant" as I'd probably "get wind" of it!

Author:	Special Agent [ Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:16 am ]
Post subject:
dgeist wrote: See, I'm glad I qualilfied that with a "please correct me"... Thanks for keeping me inline As an aside, have ya'll heard of any tangible differences between B-fuels made from different stocks? I'm using B100 as well as various percentages mixed in with petro. It's made at a facility that uses chicken fat for a base. I always seem to have a slight drop in fuel economy when I'm running it, yet others report better fuel economy when using soybean or other vegatable-based biodiesels in their CRDs. Just wanted to get the scientific reason for that if there is one... Dan There are many differences in Biodiesel made from different oils. The most obvious is the "cloud point" and gelling/freezing temperatures. Most of these are irrelevant so long as the finished product meets the ASTM standard for a diesel additive. This standard ensures that the bio is free from excess glycerine, alcohol and other contaminants. I use Seattle Biofuels biodiesel (purchased from Seaport Petroleum) made from various seed oils and I lose about 1mpg in peformance over standard diesel. Here's an awesome online resource for biodiesel: www.biodiesel.org Check the links, you can get exact figures and comparisons with yellow tallow bio versus seed oil bios and so on...

Author:	naturist [ Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Lady, don't worry about the sulfur: DC knew alllllll about it when they designed it in the first place, so you're covered. It's been in the works since for a decade or more.

Author:	oldnavy [ Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
Libertylady wrote: So I went the other day to fill up my CRD and there was a warning on the pump about the fuel being different (low in sulfer???) and that some cars and vehicles can't use it. Is my '05 in trouble? Also since no new CRD's are coming to America because of emmision standards is my jeep a problem and will it go up in value? Thanks guys for any answers. You CRD is fine on LSD and will even run better and cleaner on the new ULSD, the warning for '07 models is that LSD will clog the particulate filter that will be on '07 models and they will require ULSD fuel. The LSD will all but dissappear in a few months and the ULSD should start preventing a lot of problems we currently have because of LSD fuel. The emissions is not the reason the CRD is not available in the US market currently. The just do not have enough engines to go around and VM was not able to give Jeep more engines for this reason. Jeep sold in one calander year what they had alloted for two model years and had to bite the bullet for engines and stop the sales due to lack of supply. The CRD will be back for '07 (VM has been expanding and is now working around the clock.) Jeep Liberty body style was scheduled to be replaced for '07 with a vehicle body simuliar to the Dodge Nitro which it will share platforms with. The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired. The odds are you will see the replacement for our Liberty with a diesel option after introduction later this year and it will probably be available in the Nitro at the same time. The VM CRD will be easy to certify for the '07 and '09 EPA requirements, for '07 all that is needed is ULSD and particulte traps, and '09 will require the eurea additive for the fuel system as in the MB V6 Blutec engine coming to the US. Something that people don't realize is that the diesel is easier to make '09 EPA certified then a gas engine and that a lot of older gas engine designs will disappear for '09, some will not be back for '07 even by some mfg's. I hear the Hemi V8 will have their last hurrah in '08 MY, currently '11 EPA is the death of the gas engine unless something changes or new technology come along to drasticlly improve MPG's of gas engine.

Author:	valkraider [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
oldnavy wrote: The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired. 2002 - 2007 = 5 years. What are you referring to with 10 year run?

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
valkraider wrote: oldnavy wrote: The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired. 2002 - 2007 = 5 years. What are you referring to with 10 year run? Because a 4x4 doubles anything that a 2x4 does...including time

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Author:	oldnavy [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
DarbyWalters wrote: valkraider wrote: oldnavy wrote: The Liberty sales had been dropping and it was about a 10 year run which now days is a long time between major body style changes and the look/design getting dated or tired. 2002 - 2007 = 5 years. What are you referring to with 10 year run? Because a 4x4 doubles anything that a 2x4 does...including time I sure would like to know how I managed to put 10 years because at the time I was thinking '02 to '07, I guess that DW is right about the time thing. Anyway the buz for the last couple of years has been what the replacement would be like for the Libby, then along comes the Nitro that is supposedly on Liberty chassis. Is there going to be any real drastic change for the Liberty in near future or not? It is hard to say what D/C is doing, I sometimes wonder if even they know. I am sure you will see the CRD back in the Jeep line, just not sure if it will still be called a Liberty. My guess is they will do major body change and have it looking a lot like the Nitro. If they make it enough like the Nitro to be able to share most engine/drive assembly, interior, and some body paneling then they can drop cost while leaving or even raising price to increase proffit margine. The shared parts routine has be very successful in the LX series cars and should work for the Jeep & Dodge Nitro like Dodge Charger/Magnum and Chrysler 300C. I believe the Caliber is going to share a platform with the new small Jeep Compass so the likelyhood of the Nitro/Liberty being shared platforms looks good to me.

Author:	dgeist [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Crd fuel things
oldnavy wrote: The shared parts routine has be very successful in the LX series cars and should work for the Jeep & Dodge Nitro like Dodge Charger/Magnum and Chrysler 300C. I believe the Caliber is going to share a platform with the new small Jeep Compass so the likelyhood of the Nitro/Liberty being shared platforms looks good to me. From what I've read in the reviews, the nitro (at least in the show car form) essentially IS a liberty with the back end stretched a few inches, new sheet metal and interior, and more road-friendly suspension setup. Taken for granted that the production version will be have many more changes, I hope DC learns something from the longevity of the AMC/renault-derived cherokee platform (14 years, was it...) and leaves things alone unless there's some particular improvement to be made (i.e. more durable ball joint setup or something). Sometimes evolution is better than revolution...