LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Found this on another site...

Hylndr1125
Member
Posted 21 May 2006 05:24 PM
Since my last post, I have been experimenting with blending. Due to the fact my Liberty uses a Common Rail injection system, I've been adding a bit more kerosene to thin the WVO out a little more. This is my current blend formula:

10.0 gallons WVO (filtered to 5 microns)
2.0 gallons kerosene
1.0 gallon dino-d
0.5 gallon RUG
8.0 oz Cetane Boost
8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer

So far, I've got good results using this. If anyone has anything to add, please feel free to do so.

Hylndr1125
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
Sport 4x4
Posts: 27 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 21 June 2005

WOW...I think this guy might run into some trouble...

When I get a little spare time I am going to make some BioDiesel with the Dr. Pepper Method to see how easy it is (called that because you can use a 2 liter Dr. Pepper bottle ). Seems fairly straight forward and won't cost that much to try.

DarbyWalters wrote:

Ok DW I have never heard of this so clue me in on the Dr. Pepper deal.

8.0 oz Cetane Boost
8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer (Dropped from formula)

These two product actually work against each other. Centane boost works to initiate a free radical chemical reaction, while Sta-Bil works to quench them.

I doubt it would hurt anything to run this mix, but I think it would be hard to show that it helps either. What's to total cost per gallon?

What a crazy mixture that is. Some parts of it sound to me like they were put there just for funsies.

In any case, there is some concern from reputable sources that high concentrations of the slightly higher viscosity of FAMES (aka biodiesel) are likely to reduce the life of fuel injectors used in the extremely high-pressure common-rail and PD injection systems. If there is good reason to be concerned about that, then this mix is guaranteed to bring it on fairly quickly.

further, his filtering the mix to only 5 microns, while useful for removing the french fries and fish sticks, is inadequate for protecting the 3 micron fuel filter in a CRD.

In short, excuse me please, but I will stick to doing my experimenting with ASTM certified FAMES made by a reputable manufacturer, and no amount of SVO or WVO is going into my ride.

SteveInMD wrote:

Hi Steve,

My brother has dropped the Sta-Bil from his formula as he already learned of the
problem. He is purposely making the blend thinner due to concerns about the injector pressure.

He hasn't had any time to work on the refining his formula lately, too many irons in the fire.

Guys,
Be careful with blends and common rail injection.

I work for a major farm tractor manufacturer. We use Bosch common rail just like the Liberty CRD does. We are pushing hard to promote biodiesel as our customers grow part of the fuel content.

Anything above 10% non diesel makes Bosch engineers very nervous. 20,000 - 25,000 PSI rail pressure has no tolerance for trash or poor blending. I'm going to stay within what they allow us to use and not void warranties.

You cannot depend on the fuel filter to remove fine crapola that will ruin the rail charge pump and injectors. Bosch rules here - not DC. Bosch owns the technology and reimburses the warranty. (they even make the repairs as few dealers are qualified). If Bosch thinks you screwed the pooch then they are the judge, jury and hangman. I don't want to argue with the "experts".

The old diesels will burn just about anthing - expecially the old inline injection pumps. Common rail requires more attention.

For what it's worth.

There is such a meth problem in this part of the country, I don't know if you can buy enough lye & methanol to make a gallon without the cops raiding your garage. :shock:

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Found this on another site...
Hylndr1125 Member Posted 21 May 2006 05:24 PM Since my last post, I have been experimenting with blending. Due to the fact my Liberty uses a Common Rail injection system, I've been adding a bit more kerosene to thin the WVO out a little more. This is my current blend formula: 10.0 gallons WVO (filtered to 5 microns) 2.0 gallons kerosene 1.0 gallon dino-d 0.5 gallon RUG 8.0 oz Cetane Boost 8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer So far, I've got good results using this. If anyone has anything to add, please feel free to do so. Hylndr1125 '05 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport 4x4 Posts: 27 \| Location: Georgia \| Registered: 21 June 2005 WOW...I think this guy might run into some trouble...

Author:	AZ CRD [ Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Found this on another site...
DarbyWalters wrote: Hylndr1125 Member Posted 21 May 2006 05:24 PM Since my last post, I have been experimenting with blending. Due to the fact my Liberty uses a Common Rail injection system, I've been adding a bit more kerosene to thin the WVO out a little more. This is my current blend formula: 10.0 gallons WVO (filtered to 5 microns) 2.0 gallons kerosene 1.0 gallon dino-d 0.5 gallon RUG 8.0 oz Cetane Boost 8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer So far, I've got good results using this. If anyone has anything to add, please feel free to do so. Hylndr1125 '05 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport 4x4 Posts: 27 \| Location: Georgia \| Registered: 21 June 2005 WOW...I think this guy might run into some trouble... Sounds like he's been huffing some fumes.

Author:	Hero [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:47 am ]
Post subject:
I think the whole "Make your own fuel" thing with SVO/WVO is pretty neat and a good idea if you are will to take your chances... but this guy... I don't quite know what to think

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:11 am ]
Post subject:
Well his "mix" is not a BioDiesel and most likely not good for a newer CRD type vehicle. Some older Mercedes, Renaults ect can run on some crap fuel and get by but this mess is just plain playing roulette. I want to get a few people together in San Antonio as a small group to produce BioFuel for personal use.

Author:	GreggD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:10 am ]
Post subject:
You've been over to the Biodiesel & SVO Forum, eh Darby? You should have included his first post from March 31 where he's asking for information on that topic from other members of that forum. The post you used was from May 21. I know Hylndr1125, in fact we're related. I can promise you this, he hasn't been huffing any fumes of any sort. He's experimenting with things other than biodiesel. At present, he can't make any biodiesel because 2 of the components, lye & methanol, are also used to make "meth". He's an honest law abiding citizen that doesn't want any complications with the local authorities. I've seen crazier things thrown together on other sites than you think it would make the engine explode.

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Found this on another site... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9803	Page 1 of 2

Author:	SteveInMD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:40 am ]
Post subject:
8.0 oz Cetane Boost 8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer These two product actually work against each other. Centane boost works to initiate a free radical chemical reaction, while Sta-Bil works to quench them. I doubt it would hurt anything to run this mix, but I think it would be hard to show that it helps either. What's to total cost per gallon?

Author:	naturist [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:09 am ]
Post subject:
What a crazy mixture that is. Some parts of it sound to me like they were put there just for funsies. In any case, there is some concern from reputable sources that high concentrations of the slightly higher viscosity of FAMES (aka biodiesel) are likely to reduce the life of fuel injectors used in the extremely high-pressure common-rail and PD injection systems. If there is good reason to be concerned about that, then this mix is guaranteed to bring it on fairly quickly. further, his filtering the mix to only 5 microns, while useful for removing the french fries and fish sticks, is inadequate for protecting the 3 micron fuel filter in a CRD. In short, excuse me please, but I will stick to doing my experimenting with ASTM certified FAMES made by a reputable manufacturer, and no amount of SVO or WVO is going into my ride.

Author:	oldnavy [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:13 am ]
Post subject:
I know several people that use WVO and in winter they drop back to 50% mix with D2 except one guy who lives in central IA and he goes to 80% #2D but is expressining hope in PS or some other brands new anti-jell additive for next winter. I only know one guy personally that is running WVO in common rail engine and his is a '05 MB Sprinter and as yet he has had no problems. He drops back to about 20% mix for worst part of winter in NW Arkansas. He does not however use Kerosene or the other "normal" additives, and last I talked to him he was pushing 70k miles on the rig and has never had any problems other that some kind of software/electronic problem in the first 5k miles. He was telling me he priced the Greasel Heater and passed on it due to price, said he might build his own heater system. Myself Im too old and tired to do all that work, I just want to lift the hose and squeese the handle.

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:58 am ]
Post subject:
When I get a little spare time I am going to make some BioDiesel with the Dr. Pepper Method to see how easy it is (called that because you can use a 2 liter Dr. Pepper bottle ). Seems fairly straight forward and won't cost that much to try.

Author:	oldnavy [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:30 am ]
Post subject:
DarbyWalters wrote: When I get a little spare time I am going to make some BioDiesel with the Dr. Pepper Method to see how easy it is (called that because you can use a 2 liter Dr. Pepper bottle ). Seems fairly straight forward and won't cost that much to try. Ok DW I have never heard of this so clue me in on the Dr. Pepper deal.

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:44 am ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: DarbyWalters wrote: When I get a little spare time I am going to make some BioDiesel with the Dr. Pepper Method to see how easy it is (called that because you can use a 2 liter Dr. Pepper bottle ). Seems fairly straight forward and won't cost that much to try. Ok DW I have never heard of this so clue me in on the Dr. Pepper deal. It is a cheap way to start making your own Biodiesl without investing is a bigger production unit. The short version: You heat VO (used or new) to eveaporate out any water ( after you have already filtered if it was used ). Then you let it cool down and add methanol and lye and give it a shake (all in a Dr Pepper bottle). You will see it settle with the Glycerin at the bottom and your Biodiesel at the top. After that you need to (or some say you don't if you are using it right away) do what they call a wash. You put your BiodDiesel in a clean Dr Pepper bottle and then add some water ( I know that seems counterintuitive but...) and give it a shake (not too violent). You let that settle and the water will float on top with some impuriites suspended inside...ie...glycerin)...you take the water out and do it again, a thrid time, a forth time and a fifth time. You can shake more vigorously after the third time (If you shake too hard the frist two times you might see suds...lol). After the last wash and removal of all visible water you let the bottle sit without the cap to let any remaining moisture eveaporate. You end up with washed Biodiesel ready to add to your tank. That is definitely the layman's version of the process but it can be done at home. You can buy Lye at hardware stores ect and HEET in the bottle is methanol. You must be sure not to breath or come in contact with these two ingredients. If you "Google" Dr Pepper BioDiesel you should find some better information. Of course you can just enlarge your containers and make a bigger supply once you have perfected the process. DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ABRIDGES VERSION OF THE PROCESS AS A GUIDE TO MAKING BIODIESEL>>>DO A GOOGLE SEARCH FIRST!!! ALSO, the write ups always talk about long sleeves and gloves but I don't remember seeing anything about safety glasses...think it would be a good idea Tilly seems to have the best write up on the Dr Pepper Production: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ ... /857600061 And Washing: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums? ... =741607061

Author:	oldnavy [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Once you described it I do remember hearing about it, probably heard it mentioned in the VW TDI group. There is such a meth problem in this part of the country, I don't know if you can buy enough lye & methanol to make a gallon without the cops raiding your garage.

Author:	GreggD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:
SteveInMD wrote: 8.0 oz Cetane Boost 8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer (Dropped from formula) These two product actually work against each other. Centane boost works to initiate a free radical chemical reaction, while Sta-Bil works to quench them. I doubt it would hurt anything to run this mix, but I think it would be hard to show that it helps either. What's to total cost per gallon? Hi Steve, My brother has dropped the Sta-Bil from his formula as he already learned of the problem. He is purposely making the blend thinner due to concerns about the injector pressure. He hasn't had any time to work on the refining his formula lately, too many irons in the fire.

Author:	GreggD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:
naturist wrote: What a crazy mixture that is. Some parts of it sound to me like they were put there just for funsies. In any case, there is some concern from reputable sources that high concentrations of the slightly higher viscosity of FAMES (aka biodiesel) are likely to reduce the life of fuel injectors used in the extremely high-pressure common-rail and PD injection systems. If there is good reason to be concerned about that, then this mix is guaranteed to bring it on fairly quickly. further, his filtering the mix to only 5 microns, while useful for removing the french fries and fish sticks, is inadequate for protecting the 3 micron fuel filter in a CRD. In short, excuse me please, but I will stick to doing my experimenting with ASTM certified FAMES made by a reputable manufacturer, and no amount of SVO or WVO is going into my ride. According to DC, the fuel/water filter is a 10 micron type, so the 5 is good enough for now. They may have put a 3 on some, but not on his or mine either. A 1 or 2 micron filter is scheduled in the next upgrade on the system that's used to filter the fuel.

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Author:	GreggD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:
GreggD wrote: SteveInMD wrote: 8.0 oz Cetane Boost 8.0 oz Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer (Dropped from formula) These two product actually work against each other. Centane boost works to initiate a free radical chemical reaction, while Sta-Bil works to quench them. I doubt it would hurt anything to run this mix, but I think it would be hard to show that it helps either. What's to total cost per gallon? Hi Steve, My brother has dropped the Sta-Bil from his formula as he already learned of the problem. He is purposely making the blend thinner due to concerns about the injector pressure. He hasn't had any time to work on the refining his formula lately, too many irons in the fire. The WVO oil is free, & taking everything else into account, kerosene, RUG, Cetane Boost, making about 10 gallons, rough guess is about $1.00 to $1.50 per gallon. I'll double check that to be certain.

Author:	TDICRD58 [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Guys, Be careful with blends and common rail injection. I work for a major farm tractor manufacturer. We use Bosch common rail just like the Liberty CRD does. We are pushing hard to promote biodiesel as our customers grow part of the fuel content. Anything above 10% non diesel makes Bosch engineers very nervous. 20,000 - 25,000 PSI rail pressure has no tolerance for trash or poor blending. I'm going to stay within what they allow us to use and not void warranties. You cannot depend on the fuel filter to remove fine crapola that will ruin the rail charge pump and injectors. Bosch rules here - not DC. Bosch owns the technology and reimburses the warranty. (they even make the repairs as few dealers are qualified). If Bosch thinks you screwed the pooch then they are the judge, jury and hangman. I don't want to argue with the "experts". The old diesels will burn just about anthing - expecially the old inline injection pumps. Common rail requires more attention. For what it's worth.

Author:	GreggD [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:
TDICRD58 wrote: Guys, Be careful with blends and common rail injection. I work for a major farm tractor manufacturer. We use Bosch common rail just like the Liberty CRD does. We are pushing hard to promote biodiesel as our customers grow part of the fuel content. Anything above 10% non diesel makes Bosch engineers very nervous. 20,000 - 25,000 PSI rail pressure has no tolerance for trash or poor blending. I'm going to stay within what they allow us to use and not void warranties. You cannot depend on the fuel filter to remove fine crapola that will ruin the rail charge pump and injectors. Bosch rules here - not DC. Bosch owns the technology and reimburses the warranty. (they even make the repairs as few dealers are qualified). If Bosch thinks you screwed the pooch then they are the judge, jury and hangman. I don't want to argue with the "experts". The old diesels will burn just about anthing - expecially the old inline injection pumps. Common rail requires more attention. For what it's worth. Thanks for the advice. I will pass it along to my brother. As I mentioned on the previous page, there is an upgrade in the works for the filtration system that is being used. At present, the WVO is rough filtered through a 200 & 100 micron strainer to get the big stuff, then dewatered, filtered through a strainer made from flour sack cloth, & then through a water filter cartridge that removes particles as large as 15 microns, down to 5 microns. After that, the kerosene, RUG, & cetane boost is added & then that goes through another 5 micron filter & a 10 micron water block. There's a debate about getting some bag filters from McMaster-Carr, but "brother dear" isn't sure what size to get.

Author:	KJNick [ Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:20 am ]
Post subject:
One other problem I've heard of in using WVO without modifying the viscosity either chemically (Biodiesel) or through heat (Greasel conversion) is a buildup of carbon that can scratch cylinder walls and even break rings. This is due to the WVO not atomizing as well when sprayed from the injectors. From what I understand, even thinning the WVO with diesel still doesn't modify the viscosity of the WVO, so the problem still occurs. I don't have any direct experience with this, though, but heard it on another forum from the guy who runs this website - http://www.southerngrease.com/

Author:	Hero [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:38 am ]
Post subject:
TDICRD58 wrote: Guys, Be careful with blends and common rail injection. I work for a major farm tractor manufacturer. We use Bosch common rail just like the Liberty CRD does. We are pushing hard to promote biodiesel as our customers grow part of the fuel content. Anything above 10% non diesel makes Bosch engineers very nervous. 20,000 - 25,000 PSI rail pressure has no tolerance for trash or poor blending. I'm going to stay within what they allow us to use and not void warranties. You cannot depend on the fuel filter to remove fine crapola that will ruin the rail charge pump and injectors. Bosch rules here - not DC. Bosch owns the technology and reimburses the warranty. (they even make the repairs as few dealers are qualified). If Bosch thinks you screwed the pooch then they are the judge, jury and hangman. I don't want to argue with the "experts". The old diesels will burn just about anthing - expecially the old inline injection pumps. Common rail requires more attention. For what it's worth. I've read this as well and the absolute highest I've gone is using B11. I normally use B2 now as that is all that is available in my general area, I just cannot justify (if I had the chance to use it) using anything higher than B20 as that is the highest BD blend that any American brand automaker has tested and certified for (GM/Duramax). Don't get me wrong as I love biodiesel and wish this country could become primarily dependent on it internally, but the paranoia against my Jeep breaking something is what keeps me in check. oldnavy wrote: There is such a meth problem in this part of the country, I don't know if you can buy enough lye & methanol to make a gallon without the cops raiding your garage. I know what you're saying, my county is actually #3 in the U.S. as far as meth goes and the #1 & #2 counties are both adjacent to my county Considering the fact that a meth maker is busted in my area about every three days or so, I'm not taking my chances on anything related

Author:	MrWinkey [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm with Hero on the CRD injection system. My old Cummins truck I pour in a lil old 2 stroke I drain from my snowmobile and I wouldnt worry about even running some used motor oil through that had been filterd well & such. The older non CRD cummins trucks will burn danged near anything w/o any issues but I've heard the new system can be senstive. I would also be very weary of any do it yourself home bio D setup for the Law Enforcement reasons mentioned also.