I wasn't jumping on you and I'm sure you realize that from your post, just educating the behind the scenes that many don't hear. As a small business owner, I do understand how it makes you feel when you put out a feeler and get a big list of interested people, and then you make X amount of product based on that number, and find out you might get lucky to sell 5% of that number. It's good to have a list of interested people just as that, test the interest, but keep in mind, those interested may be interested in purchasing, but "when" they purchase is a completely different story. When I first mentioned making a rear bumper and had a sign up list of interested people, nearly 40 people signed up. Having learned from my first two years of business making Cherokee products, figure 5% may purchase. I figured maybe five people would purchase, but thought I would go ahead and order up 15 from my manufacturer just to have as inventory. I got lucky and actually sold that entire batch within a few months. My first year in business, I designed and made 25 front cherokee bumpers based off of a list of interest, not knowing any better, without taking money up front, had 17 people on the waiting list, and when I finished the bumpers and started contacting people on the list, only three purchased. You think $800 is painful, try spending nearly $32000 the first year on the business and only making $5000 gross sales. And that is paying cash, no loans, no investors, no full time job to back it up if it failed. Starting a business is big money with almost zero actual profit for years. As the sole investor in my business, I have spent a lot of money and still have nothing to show for it except for a great reputation. Thus, the reason for taking a break, not taking anymore orders, catching up with back orders, and completely reorganizing the business and rewriting my business plan. My very first business plan was nearly 40 pages long, and I didn't even step foot in a bank for a business loan. Now, my business plan will probably end up twice that and I still won't step foot in a bank. When I say I am the sole investor, I am meaning I take every penny I can from sales and put it back into the business as much as possible without ever relying on loans and credit cards. My true business investors are every single one of my customers, because without them, I would have nothing to build the business with.

OK, so I totally hijacked this post. Sorry.

man i tell ya. id go with the riddler. its very well constucted. i dont think there is much else out there for the 8.25 thaat is this well made. but your gonna do what your gonna do. unless arb puts out there cover "yeah right" this is the 1 to have.

So, what's the deal, why no drain plug on them anyway?

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Group Hug

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L.O.S.T. #225019
2003 Sport 4x4
Patriot Blue w/ trail rash
Flex-Zilla 4" Lift
TrailRash hi-lift mounts
Other stuff you wish you had

Thinking the same thing.

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06 White KJ Sport 4x4
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2432458/1

there is also the crane diff cover too. almost the same thing as the riddler one. i got mine a few months ago.

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2002 Cactus Green Renegade~OME HD/Rancho
235-85-16 Firestone Destination MT's~Detroit Locker~AL's 4.5 Arms
ARB bumper/Superwinch 9k~PIAA 540 driving lights/PIAA reverse lights~Crane 8.25 diff cover

The guy who owns or started riddler owned part of or worked for Crane and then broke off to do his own thing. They look near identical and both are awesome. I bet Crane isn't too happy about it.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Tim at Riddler was one of the founding owners of Crane.I don't know what happened but Crane went away for awhile,Tim started Riddler and now Josh at CrawlerTech bought Crane and started it back up.Both are great guys,have bought stuff from both,very quility products from both.

Any ideas on why there is no drain plug option Troy?

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Because a true offroader want's to completely take the diff cover off when changing fluid as to inspect there gears and lockers for any wear/tear on them,plus that way it get's the metal particles out of the bottom of the diff also.Also a drain plug is just one likely place,from where it needs to be placed,that will see the most damage if you do hit the diff cover on a rock or such,then your SOL with a diff cover that broke the drain plug and now you can't keep fluid in it.

True off roaders huh?

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

I can't fiqure out why everyone wants a drain plug ? Laziness you always want to get everything out of there like tjkj said

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Who care about there vehicle and want to keep up there investment that was put into there gears and lockers.


Oh by the way the diff cover I have on now(ruffstuff) has a drain plug,but I still fully remove the cover when changing the fluid.I've been very lucky that I have not yet touched my diff cover,the only piece of armor that has yet to be used.

That is a big assumption that's all. I mean, because someone uses a drain plug on a diff means they aren't a true offroader or are lazy as Tom put it is BS.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

If someone is a 'true offroader' and has a drain plug on their diff cover, they likely will find themselves out of diff fluid quickly because they're romping it. And if they never take off their diff cover, they will also likely find problems and finally have to take the cover off anyways to do repairs/replacements. I have yet to have these problems, but I haven't done a single trail LOST Rockies has minus Eagle Rock, which left my KJ damaged to this day.
True offroaders understand preventative maintanence is the name of the game unless you want to find yourself broken down in the worst of places, in the middle of no where and where only another 4x4 can recover your own! Troy was driving home this point. If you're not prepared, you're not a true offroader. This is my opinion that I think Troy will likely agree with, but it is not aimed at any one person. Anyone can romp it, but making it home with your 4x4 in one piece, and of course full of its proper fluids, is nice!

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

I guess the guys at ARB aren't true offroaders then.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/ ... 482-lg.jpg

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Why are you so in need of a drain plug anyway? You still need to pull the cover to get all the fluid and metal particles out and inspect the gears anyway and it's not hard at all to pull the diff cover.It's just as easy as changing your oil.

i think a drain plug would be nice to have.. you could let it bleed out some fluid to check if it is water infested or milky without having to pull the entire cover off.. deal with the mess.. and reseal the cover with ATV.... drain plugs make life easier in my opinion.. and i've only got my diff cover once. but i'm suuuure glad it was there for that one hit because the stock one is paper thin!

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2006 Renegade. Completely stock.

Its not that I am in need of one, I actually have one. They make things easier. And no it is not hard to take the cover off and inspect things, but a lot of times I am not going to want to take the whole thing off but only check the fluid like 2006 kj said. I like to check the fluid between changes. If I can check it easier with the plug then I will know better if I need to change it earlier or not until its regular maintenance. Don't get me wrong I love the Riddler, I do, but to say "true offroaders" don't want a drain plug is just not true. Of course you have to take the cover off occasionally but not every time you wanna check your fluids. My only gripe is the comment not the cover. I am not getting a riddler because I have a cover already, but if I didn't it would be one of the top ones on my list.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

what happened to the group hug. i roll mine then do fluid checks.