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16x8 Cragar Black Soft 8's? minor questions
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Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  16x8 Cragar Black Soft 8's? minor questions
I know lots of people out there have these.

Are Cragar's the best ones to get?

The 5 in. BackSpace, what does that mean?

16x8's allow what king or size tire withou pinch weld manipulation, on an OME Lift?

What would I be able to slip on if I DID pound down the pinch weld.

Also factory lug buts and locks, are they still usable on these?

I know this has been covered elsewhere, but please give me some insight.

Gonna loose the stock mag. 17" ers.
Author:  bugnout [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
backspacing is sometimes measured in a couple of ways, but the 5 inch backspacing advertised means that the mounting surface to the wheel center is offset 5 inches from the inside edge of the rim.

In other words, the rim is 8 inches wide and the wheel center is postioned 1 inch from the center line toward the outside of the rim, 4 inches on center + 1 inch offset, = 5 inches from inside 3 inches from outside.
Author:  KJ04 [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 16X8 wheels w/5" B.S. just allow more clearance of the front swaybar on a wider tire.
All taller tires above 245/70/16 require a lift and pounding the pinchweld over. 16X8's work fairly well with a 245/75/16 or 255/70/16.
265/75/16's work better with a stock 16X7 rim if you're stuffing them and require extended 2.5"-2.75" bumpstops on the spring perch in the rear with an extra upper rear spring isolator. You will rub on the swaybar but your flares will stay on.
Author:  bugnout [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Moabs are 8 inch wide with 4.5 inch offset. The soft 8's would therefor give you about a 1 inch narrower stance than the Moabs.

The narrower stance benefit from higher offset (5 vs 4) especially at full stuff. The tires tend to rub the liner instead of the fender flairs (which pops them off)
Author:  wildrussian [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
bugnout wrote:
Moabs are 8 inch wide with 4.5 inch offset. The soft 8's would therefor give you about a 1 inch narrower stance than the Moabs.

The narrower stance benefit from higher offset (5 vs 4) especially at full stuff. The tires tend to rub the liner instead of the fender flairs (which pops them off)


Moabs are 5" offset
Stock Wheels are 5.5" offset
Author:  bugnout [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
wildrussian wrote:
bugnout wrote:
Moabs are 8 inch wide with 4.5 inch offset. The soft 8's would therefor give you about a 1 inch narrower stance than the Moabs.

The narrower stance benefit from higher offset (5 vs 4) especially at full stuff. The tires tend to rub the liner instead of the fender flairs (which pops them off)


Moabs are 5" offset
Stock Wheels are 5.5" offset


I stand corrected. Distance between wheel hub and outside rim increases by 1.5" over stock or a total 3" wider stance.

I was considering some Mikey Thompson Classic II's and I think they have the 4.5 offset.
Author:  daspes [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
bugnout wrote:
wildrussian wrote:
bugnout wrote:
Moabs are 8 inch wide with 4.5 inch offset. The soft 8's would therefor give you about a 1 inch narrower stance than the Moabs.

The narrower stance benefit from higher offset (5 vs 4) especially at full stuff. The tires tend to rub the liner instead of the fender flairs (which pops them off)


Moabs are 5" offset
Stock Wheels are 5.5" offset


I stand corrected. Distance between wheel hub and outside rim increases by 1.5" over stock or a total 3" wider stance.

I was considering some Mikey Thompson Classic II's and I think they have the 4.5 offset.


My AR's have a 4.5" BS. Puts the tire outside the Flare a bit. Pics are posted under the pics of rigs section.
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
KJ04 wrote:
The 16X8 wheels w/5" B.S. just allow more clearance of the front swaybar on a wider tire.
All taller tires above 245/70/16 require a lift and pounding the pinchweld over. 16X8's work fairly well with a 245/75/16 or 255/70/16.
265/75/16's work better with a stock 16X7 rim if you're stuffing them and require extended 2.5"-2.75" bumpstops on the spring perch in the rear with an extra upper rear spring isolator. You will rub on the swaybar but your flares will stay on.


So a 245/70/16 is only about a half an inch bigger in total diameter on a set of 16x8's than my stock 17x7.5's with 235/65/17 and i should not have any rubbing?

255's are 1 inch larger in diameter... and they will rub? with a lift and no pinch pounding (that sounds weird)
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dont know if this will help you any or not but here goes when I bought my Moabs they had 245-75X16 MTRs on them with way over 3/4 of the tread left, I had them on without pounding over the pinch weld. Of course with the ARB no problems in the front of the tire. I have 255-70s on now with the pinch pounded down ( which isnt needed with my lift) and only problems I have is when stuffed in the rear the outside of the tire is hitting the inside of the flare real good, remedy is to cut the flare back some and to also install longer bump stops which I need to do anyways. I have the Heavy Duty OMEs and 2 rings as front lift

OH YES factory lug nuts and locks will work on the crager wheels just make sure you check them every 75/100 miles for the first 2/300 sean150s worked loose after we put them on!

Tom
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
How do you figure they stick out 1.5" more per rim bugnout? I was trying to figure that up in my head before I got my Moabs and I figured 1" but once I got them and measured, it was in fact 1.5".

Do you have a lift Woody? You will probably get mild rubbing with the 245/70/16 tires if you dont. The rear will rub like tommudd said if you dont get extended bumpstops. My 245/70/16's rub at full flex, but I just have to pump the air bags up some to stop that. :)

Some comparison pics. I have a 3" lift so the stock tires look kinda small.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Tons of room:

Image

Image

Image
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I really apprieciate all the input. But I have no interest in Moabs.

I want a Black wheel and i don't want to spend 150.00 - 200.00 a pop for them only to get out on a trail and crack one. 50.00 per wheel is fine for me. Mag aloy wheels on an off road vehicle seam very silly to me, bent rims still drive (maybe not at highway speeds) but they also wont break the bank.

Now back to the Cragar 16x8 black soft 8's.

I will (have all components, just no time to install) have an OME HD lift with no clevis spacers and no extra bumpstops.

I will get rid of the factory 17 inch rims and tires. hopefuly long before they wear out as I agree, a lift and stock wheels and tires look silly too. but lets see what the bank hold for me after the silly season (I see a recuring theme here)

I currently have an ARB and will (future) have a winch with synthetic line.

again i really apprieciate all the input but moabs mean nothing to me as i do not intend to have a set.

Who else makes a Black Soft 8 besides Cragar? Does Pro-Comp? Are they worth a crap. I hear disturbing things about some of Pro-Comp stuff (mostly their lifts)

American Racing? I am pretty much set on the style, just not the manufacturer. What differences are there between manufacturers and their off sets, etc.
Author:  WGNMANinaRENEGADE [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
just add some spring spacers, you'll be alright...
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
WoodysKJ wrote:
I really apprieciate all the input. But I have no interest in Moabs


I understand that but the Moabs are the exact same size as the Cragar soft 8's. I just wanted to give you pics for comparison and to give you an idea of what to expect. So far Ive had the stock wheels, Cragars, and moabs.

Image
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
WoodysKJ wrote:
I really apprieciate all the input. But I have no interest in Moabs


I understand that but the Moabs are the exact same size as the Cragar soft 8's. I just wanted to give you pics for comparison and to give you an idea of what to expect. So far Ive had the stock wheels, Cragars, and moabs.

Image


See now nobody ever said anything about Moabs being exactly the same as Soft 8's

Off set and B.S. are the exact same? Go figure.

Speaking of Soft 8's, what did you do with that set?
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Was not talking about Moabs per se, my point was that what you are looking at and Moabs are the same back spacing and width, so you could go off what I and Jeepster stated if you wanted to use something similar, Moabs are lighter and you will notice the difference for sure in the weight of what you want, not at all trying to get you to buy them plus they are not 150/200 a pop I have a whole lot less in mine than what you will pay for your Cragars for sure! :lol: :lol:

But back to you trying to determine if in fact a 16 X 8 with 5 inch backspacing fits or not :wink: :roll:

just trying to help :roll: :lol:

see now you are getting it from everyone :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
tommudd wrote:
Was not talking about Moabs per se, my point was that what you are looking at and Moabs are the same back spacing and width, so you could go off what I and Jeepster stated if you wanted to use something similar, Moabs are lighter and you will notice the difference for sure in the weight of what you want, not at all trying to get you to buy them plus they are not 150/200 a pop I have a whole lot less in mine than what you will pay for your Cragars for sure! :lol: :lol:

But back to you trying to determine if in fact a 16 X 8 with 5 inch backspacing fits or not :wink: :roll:

just trying to help :roll: :lol:

see now you are getting it from everyone :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom


Tom, here we go again. Read the whole post before you go off.
you miss understood me again.

Nobody ever said anything about Moabs being exactly the same as soft 8's. I figured that it was a case of wheel envy & showing off your moabs. Personally I don't see the attraction to them, thats just my opinion. As for the weight difference, i find that hard to believe, but i will take your word for it. and it can't be that much to make any difference. I do know that steel wheels are generally easier to ballance, if they are not bent.

And as for the price. i have NEVER seen a cast alloy wheel, of any kind, cost less that 100.00 bucks NEW. Now if you got them off the back of Larry, Daryl and Daryl's truck then you probrably did pay less that the 50.00 bucks per, (and I bet you are glad they don't have serial numbers on them) I plan to spend on my soft 8's.

Thanks again Tom.
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
WoodysKJ wrote:
tommudd wrote:
Was not talking about Moabs per se, my point was that what you are looking at and Moabs are the same back spacing and width, so you could go off what I and Jeepster stated if you wanted to use something similar, Moabs are lighter and you will notice the difference for sure in the weight of what you want, not at all trying to get you to buy them plus they are not 150/200 a pop I have a whole lot less in mine than what you will pay for your Cragars for sure! :lol: :lol:

But back to you trying to determine if in fact a 16 X 8 with 5 inch backspacing fits or not :wink: :roll:

just trying to help :roll: :lol:

see now you are getting it from everyone :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom


Tom, here we go again. Read the whole post before you go off.
you miss understood me again.

Nobody ever said anything about Moabs being exactly the same as soft 8's. I figured that it was a case of wheel envy & showing off your moabs. Personally I don't see the attraction to them, thats just my opinion. As for the weight difference, i find that hard to believe, but i will take your word for it. and it can't be that much to make any difference. I do know that steel wheels are generally easier to ballance, if they are not bent.

And as for the price. i have NEVER seen a cast alloy wheel, of any kind, cost less that 100.00 bucks NEW. Now if you got them off the back of Larry, Daryl and Daryl's truck then you probrably did pay less that the 50.00 bucks per, (and I bet you are glad they don't have serial numbers on them) I plan to spend on my soft 8's.

Thanks again Tom.


Go off :? :? :? not at all just trying to make light of the fact that we were trying to tell you that Moabs and what you want are about the same and also I bought my wheels from a 04 Rubicon with less than 20000 miles on them so no Larry Daryl and Daryl was involved :wink: Plus they do have all the markings on them they were not stolen not sure where that is coming from??? Man try and help someone out and what do ya get called a thief or dealing in stolen goods :roll: Oh well I never meant anything about anything at all like I said just trying to help someone out with good info.

Tom said that and will again if asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  daspes [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Woody, There have been several valid points aboout the difference between steel and alunimum rims. Steel is better for offraoding, no doubt about it, just bring a big hammer if you do get a bend, much better than splitting an alunimum one. However there is a substantial weight difference between the two and the alloy is better for onroad driving. The whole wheel is rotational unsprung mass, a single pound makes a diffence on accelerating, stopping, and MPG.

A personal note, I chose the Alloy rims for the extra couple of MPG they saved me since this is my DD. The Alloys hold up extremely well, and all my years offroading I haven't personaly seen one break yet. Take a look at my Moabs I cant sell, they have taken a lot of abuse, and are still road worthy. As for the price, There are deals out there. I picked up my American Racing ATX's for $90 a rim, vice the 206 MSRP, through a retail/wholesale store in OK City, OK. Contact details are posted under the Tires section for that company.

It comes down to whats most practicle for you jeep, and most importantly what you want!
Author:  03kjsport [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
good read yall.
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought this would be entertaining.

Thanks again Tom
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