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Nokian Vatiiva Tires...?
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Author:  SavageUrge [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Nokian Vatiiva Tires...?
I've searched around on the web for some reviews on these and all Ive found is raving about how well they perform year-round. Does anyone here have any experience with these? My local tire shop will put a set of 4 of these on my Libby for 567.18 + tax. This includes an alignment. I'm a bit skeptical, since the price is so low and I got burned BIG-TIME by all the reviews I read prior to purchasing my Firestone Destination A/T's. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I really DON'T want to spend another big chunk of money on more poopy tires!
Author:  Threeweight [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Based on your old posts about your preference for the stock Goodyears vs. the Destination AT's, I doubt you will be happy with the Nokian Vattiiva AT either.

They will be loud, they will get worse mileage than the stock Goodyears, they will wander more than the stock Goodyears, and they will be shot at 50,000. They should get better snow/slush/ice traction than the Destinations due to their heavy siping, but they are still an all-season tire, not a snow tire (they are not "snowflake" rated like the Nokian winter tires).

For the kind of driving you do, I'd look at the Nokian WR SUV tires.

http://www.tirefactory.net/wrsuv.htm
Author:  Pote [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll have to disagree with everything above. I have them and they are stellar. They will blow away most ATs in every category with the exception of severe offroading. They are as quiet as stockers. They ARE rated for snow...they just missed the cutoff for testing to get the snowflake symbol...it will be on there shortly. Right now it sports the M+S. There is NOT an AT tire out that has the siping of Nokians. They have a 60K mile warranty. They are every bit as good as Revos...better than any on ice and snow. You WILL NOT be disappointed with these...I highly recommend. Here's some current threads about them. They blow away Grabbers, KOs, Michelins, and even Blizzaks or any other winter tires in every ice/snow testing performed. I love mine and will get them again whenever they wear out. Simply Google some info on Nokian, Hakka Siping, Nokian torture testing, Ice Testing, etc and you'll see for yourself. Inclement weather drivers will use nothing else...if you are looking for a super tough AT to go offroad with, then something else might be better for you that has more plys in the sidewalls...but again, these aren't 50 pound tires like KOs or Grabbers...these are ATs that are meant for bad weather, a bit of offroad, and highway driving through the worst of weather conditions...while displaying a nice beefy AT look.

Here's some other links:

Scroll down just a bit for picks and reviews, etc
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... ight=revos
Author:  SavageUrge [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
For the kind of driving you do, I'd look at the Nokian WR SUV tires.

How do you know what kind of driving I do? I don't want to spend that much on tires - that's why I'm not getting the WR's

Thanks for the replies so far. I do absolutely NO off-roading, so I am looking for a strictly on-road, all-season tire. When I bought the Destination A/T's, I was hopeful that they would provide good year-round traction. Boy was I wrong! They are lousy on-road (noisy, they wander and drift all over the place...and yes, I had an alignment upon install) and they lost me about 2 miles per gallon, not to mention they caused my accident last winter. I'll never pay attention to the reviews on Tirerack.com again!
Like I said in my first post, I have not read a bad review anywhere on line yet, but I just wanted to hear from you folks, who I trust over others since we all drive the same vehicle.
I do think I am the only person on this forum however, who thinks that the stock Goodyear SR-A was not a bad tire. The only gripe I had about them was that they tended to spin on the tape used to mark intersections when it rained. Other than that, they lasted me 52,000 (they had about 7,000 more to go to) miles and got me through 4 winters - can't complain there! As much as they cost however, I won't be switching back, hence my decision to go with the Nokians.
Author:  crazy canuck [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just purchased a set of Nokian Vattiiva today, stock size as I have no lift on my Libby. My previous tires were Revo's, excellent when new but worn out after 2 years of low kilometer driving. Hope these tires last longer. I'll post any problems if I have any.
Author:  Threeweight [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't disagree that the Vatiivaas are great tires. But in an earlier post he started a bit of a firestorm by saying her prefered the stock Goodyears to Firestone Destination AT's because the stockers got better gas mileage, didn't wander as much as the highway, and didn't break loose as much in the snow, etc... Based on that, I don't think any AT tire is going to give him what he's looking for.

I have no doubt the Vatiivaas are good AT tires, and better in snow that most, but blowing away Blizzaks and other dedicated snow tires? If that were true, why would Nokian bother making full on SUV snow tires (their Hakka 4, for instance)?
Author:  Threeweight [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
SavageUrge wrote:
How do you know what kind of driving I do?


Because you started a thread here a month or so ago saying that the Goodyears that came stock on your Liberty were better for your driving than Firestone Destinations. It stood out to me, because it was the first time I'd heard someone give the Destination's a bad review. When you explained that you used them strictly as a street tire, the complaints made more sense.

I don't think you will be happy with any AT tire, as they are, by definition, a compromise between on-road handling and off-road traction. If you really want a good, cheap all-season tire that will not be used off road I'd look at something more like the Goodyear Fortera, Yokohama Geolander H/T, or the new Toyo H/T's.
Author:  KY Liberty [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Since I haven't had the Nokians, but have had alot of tire experience with my Jeeps, I'll pass some of my experiences on to you. (Sorry, little long)

In my XJ back in Feb '01, I hit some black ice turning left at an intersection and ended up sliding into the curb hard enough to break the bead on my front right tire and deflate it. I don't fault the Dueler AT's though, and say they caused that wreck. I also don't blame the tires for the guy a few minutes later that fish tailed into my back left corner. Neither of us was going more than 5-10 mph. There was more than an accident per minute between 7 and 8 am. Going 40+ mph on a slushy road can end up badly. Especially with a limited slip and tires that are worn half way down, which on the Destination AT's includes about half the siping.

I've had 235/70R16 SRA's, 245/70R16 Cross Terrains, 245/65R17 Destination AT's, and now have 245/75R16 Silent Armors. I had no problems with the SRA's the first year. The 2nd winter I slid down my driveway and out into the street the first time it was icey, so I went to the tire store instead of straight to work. The Cross Terrains were a nice improvement. They corrected my spedometer, rode much better, and had much better traction than the SRA's with about 15k miles on them. I had the Cross Terrains on it for 3 winters, including the startup of the ice storms. Very good traction if you know how to drive through hills with snow, slush, and ice. The 5th and 6th winters I had the Destination AT's. They handled better than anything else, and were almost as quiet as the Cross Terrains, but had better traction everywhere except ice where they were similar. Don't know how well they would have done for another winter though. Also, they were on 17X7.5" rims instead of 16X7" rims, which explains the better handling. I have the Silent Armors right now, but it's only been a few weeks. I really like them though. It rides really well for a lifted Jeep.

I know the Destination AT's have left a bad taste in your mouth, so I won't recommend you get another set of them. I would recommend however, that whatever choice you make, that you look at a different size. I think that some of the handling problems you described are caused by the 1/2" taller sidewall. Out of what I have had, a 245/65R17 on a 7.5" wide rim would be best. For a lower budget, the 235/70R16 or 245/70R16.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll be going back to the original stock size of 235/70/16 when I buy these Nokians. These are NOT A/T tires. They actually have no designation (HT, AT...etc) They are just Nokian Vatiiva all seasons; that is what the tire guy told me. I say the accident was the fault of the tires because the rear end of a vehicle does not normally decide to spin out 90 degrees while going 40mph in a straight line. Nobody else on the road at that time had a problem. I can only attribute it to the amount (or lack thereof) of traction. I even had 70lbs. of weight in the back. Since everyone on this forum raves about these tires, they will be going up for sale next Thursday. I'll probably be able to sell them locally for a good price. Thank you all for your input. We can close this discussion since I've heard enough good about these tires already, so I made the appointment to have them installed.
Author:  InCommando [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Methinks your tire dude be misinformed. Nokian is selling their Vatiiva as an "a/t" now to compliment the "m/t" they offer.

But of course, Goodyear called my SR-A's all-terrain. And somehow kept a straight face while doing it. :lol:

My next door neighbor has a around 30,000 miles on a set of Vatiivas on a 4x4 F150. He said he will replace them with another set when needed. Of course, he does use his 4x4 as a 4x4. The opinion of someone with a 4x2 or one who uses a 4x4 as a 4x2 may well differ in what they find acceptable. I think from your posts that a set of WR's would be worth your extra cash for what you are looking for. The Vatiiva does have a somewhat open tread and will be louder than a regular all-season tire. If all you want is on all season tire, stay away from the truck market ones and get a set intended for a car.
Author:  hyedipin [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:25 am ]
Post subject: 
I have nokians on my 17", just drive carefully during the first thousand miles, mine had a nasty coat of wax, danced me around the corners, after that, keep them inflated at recommended psi, and it is all sweet, noise-free, gliding riding afterwards. I bashed these tires for not being able to get up from dead stop, and spinning on dry surface in 2WD, soon after I realized it was the stupid wax they had on these tires, applied by the manufacturer to prevent sticking to each other or the molds. They are great, and they grab so much better then goodyears i had previously. Because they have a bit softer (but still as strong) sidewalls, they may not respond as fast as shorter-treaded tires, but they are nice overall. Nokians are supposed to show their glory in winter, especially in snow, which I am looking forward to.
ttp://gallery.jeepprojects.com/categories.php?cat_id=25
Author:  John91C [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
I'll be getting my '08 KK Limited soon but the option I chose makes me get the 18x7 wheels which stock 235/60/18. I noticed I can get the Nokian WR SUV in that size. Would this be a good option for winter/all-season tires? I live in Denver and we do get some snow.

I will eventually switch to the 16x7 wheels if allowable (maybe with a lift) but I don't know when I can get this done. I'm hoping the dealership will do a straight switch with me but since I don't have the KK I can't make any deals.

Thanks for any help.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hyedipin, are those the A/T's? Those may be the same ones my dealer told me about since they don't appear to be marked with any particular designation. I was looking at the website while talking to him, and asked him which they were, but he said neither...? I was a bit confused, since they don't offer a "just" Vatiiva. It's either A/T or H/T. I'll get it straightened out one way or another.
Author:  hyedipin [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
SavageUrge wrote:
Hyedipin, are those the A/T's? Those may be the same ones my dealer told me about since they don't appear to be marked with any particular designation. I was looking at the website while talking to him, and asked him which they were, but he said neither...? I was a bit confused, since they don't offer a "just" Vatiiva. It's either A/T or H/T. I'll get it straightened out one way or another.


Hi there, it is Nokian Vatiiva A/T.
http://nokiantires.com/en/tire_vatiiva.aspx
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=24330

There was no HT previously, so these are classified as just simply Nokian Vatiiva.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, that makes sense. I did notice that the A/T was not marked as such, so I was guessing that the tire guy didn't know any better when he told me that hey were "just Vatiiva's". From all the reviews I've been hearing about these tires, I don'think that I will have any problems whatsoever with them, especially since I'm going back to stock size. I will, however, keep everyone posted on how they are working out for me. Thanks again for all the input - that's why I love you guys! :roll: :oops: :roll:
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
John91C wrote:
I noticed I can get the Nokian WR SUV in that size. Would this be a good option for winter/all-season tires? I live in Denver and we do get some snow.


The WR's are fairly unique in being an all-season highway tire that meets the standards to get the "snowflake" winter traction label. If you just want one tire to do everything, I'd say they are a really good bet. I had a co-worker who ran them year-round on his Pathfinder (used heavily in winter as a ski rig) and they did great.
Author:  hyedipin [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
WR was just way too expensive at $185 a tire
Author:  Pote [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hyed....glad you are liking them...I'm loving mine. The snow has hit here in Cleveland, and these things are glued to the road. I'm almost due for my first tire rotation in about 800 more miles. Put 5200 miles on these since Oct 1. They show little wear and were awesome driving through this fall's rain and sleet...never a slip. I love the look of them on our KJs too. thats just a bonus in my mind. I too am looking forward to putting them through the paces this winter...
Author:  Threeweight [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I agree they are pricey. But even at $190 bucks a tire, it is cheaper than a set of summer tires and a 2nd set of rims w/ winter tires. Just depends on how important snow traction is to you.

Personally, I chose to go with 2 sets though.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Vatiiva's I'm getting are $118.25/tire w/60,000 mile warranty. This fit's my budget a heckuva lot better than the WR's at around $180/tire. If I had more fundage laying around I would definitely get the WR's. Perhaps 60,000 miles from now I'll be doing better financially, so I'll be able to write a report on the WR's when I get them! I'll keep everyone posted on the performance and handling f these Vatiiva's. Like I said before - I've heard nothing but RAVE reviews for them, so I'm very confident I'm going to like them. Stay tuned...
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