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Why A/T's don't work everywhere
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30662		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  InCommando [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Why A/T's don't work everywhere
Start on about page 7 and look at the fun Midwest 'wheeling conditions. This is an example of why you have to pick your tire for the type of 'wheeling you do, or for the lack of 'wheeling you might do:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... e67#313570

Although living with a very aggresive M/T with a 70 mile commute would be expensive as it would wear out those usually ill-riding tires, your basic A/T really wouldn't help you much there...
Author:  Fulltimer [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Very true! My tires serve me well if I don't get into too much mud. Dry trail, sand and highway = good. Deep mud = oh sh*t! :shock:

Terry
Author:  KJ04 [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Trust me, even with MT's you can still loose traction and get stuck.
MT's come in 2 versions, less aggressive street friendly like MTR's and very aggressive Mudders like Boggers, with very deep wide spaced lugs.

However, the basic MT will by far, out perform your basic AT in muddy conditions.
Author:  YJBeef [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
:lol: which is why they're labeled "MT's"
Author:  Guest [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
KJ04 wrote:
Trust me, even with MT's you can still loose traction and get stuck.
MT's come in 2 versions, less aggressive street friendly like MTR's and very aggressive Mudders like Boggers, with very deep wide spaced lugs.

However, the basic MT will by far, out perform your basic AT in muddy conditions.


Really? I thought MT's were great for street driving and wet weather traction and longevity, while AT's were the mud bogging beasts :lol:

that stuff was sloppy...and MTR's are still not technically MUD tires.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
and MTR's are still not technically MUD tires.
They where designed for rock crawling and still be decent in mud and on the road.
Author:  InCommando [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wonder if it is the fairly sticky compound and possible temp. range that makes MT/R's stick on rocks cause mud to stick to the rubber? An old trick, but I wonder if spraying PAM between the lugs before wheeling would help?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:11 am ]
Post subject: 
InCommando wrote:
I wonder if it is the fairly sticky compound and possible temp. range that makes MT/R's stick on rocks cause mud to stick to the rubber? An old trick, but I wonder if spraying PAM between the lugs would before wheeling would help?
The MT/R's are like the better MT tires,you need wheel spin to clean the lugs.Then again no MT tire will clean out very good without wheel spin.I have run MT/R's in deep mud and they did very good,not as good as the Trxus MT's I run now but Interco is the king of mud tires.But the D30A doesn't like to much wheel spin so most don't gun it enough or to late and become stuck then say that the MT/R's suck in the mud when they really don't,granted the MT'R is no Interco Bogger but like the Bogger you need a ton of HP and wheel spin to make them work correctly.
Author:  YJBeef [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
but the mtr's do suck in the mud???
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
YJBeef wrote:
but the mtr's do suck in the mud???
They are 10 times better in mud then the BFG MT's.I have run both in the same mud and the MT/R's where far better,hands down.The MT/R's also didn't get cut by those tree roots like the weak BFG's did.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
well...either it's driving skill, or tires. Not sure which, but modular's KJ seems to do better in the sloppy stuff than mine.

He should do a LOT better when he gets those Bighorns :lol:
Author:  InCommando [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I honestly have never wheeled with anyone running MT/R's. I did one run with Eddo, but I was in the stock group while he was in the modified group ( so us stockers did not hold them up on the trail. I will throw out that many people were shocked by the ability of Eddo's KJ)

I have seen the older BFG M/T's cut or puncture sidewalls, though. I have not seen the very newest KM2's do it ( haven't seen any of them but on a new JK), and I have not personally seen a KM cut although I have heard that their sidewalls are not as good as they could be, either.

Just in reading, it does seem that the newer MT's take some more wheel spin to make them work. That is probably because they are much easier to live with on the street. I have had gateway gumbo monster mudders, the original swampers, trxus m/t's, and off-brand generic MT's (BFG knock-offs), and most of them gave up quite a bit in street manners and longevity in exchange for the better mud performance. The only 4x4 with an AT I have ever had is the KJ, and they came on it stock. Well, Goodyear puts "all terrain" right on the side of the SR-A, so it must be true. :roll: I think newer MT's are getting better street manners, better life, and good all-around performance.

Back to tires for the appropriate situation: I remember a '78 Dodge I had with 15/35-15 monster mudders. That truck was ill-tempered in the rain and a POS on icy pavement. I would never haul my kids in something like that on ice. There is a place for Nokians or any AT. It is up to the owner to decide which trade-offs they want to live with: better off-road performance at some sacrifice in streetability & longevity, or less off-road performance so that their tires better fit their rig's use. It does seem like some of the newer MT's ( timberline mt-rip-, hankook, mt/r) are really blurring the line and make a true ALL terrain -even mud- tire.
Author:  YJBeef [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
YJBeef wrote:
but the mtr's do suck in the mud???
They are 10 times better in mud then the BFG MT's.I have run both in the same mud and the MT/R's where far better,hands down.The MT/R's also didn't get cut by those tree roots like the weak BFG's did.


:? I guess colorado mud must be different than around here cause you cannot get any lateral traction whatsoever with mtr's. Bfg mt's seem to be the choice other than the typical interco swamper or irok...........
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:
well...either it's driving skill, or tires. Not sure which, but modular's KJ seems to do better in the sloppy stuff than mine.

He should do a LOT better when he gets those Bighorns :lol:
Those Maxxis BigHorns are becomeing popular back home in SD,proven themselfs very well in the mud.They are virtually identical in tread design as the MT/R's,and Maxxis is also well known in the ATV and Motocross worlds as being a very good tires.I wouldn't mind trying there uber sticky CreepyCrawler tires,man those tire look really sick with the tread virtually going all the way to the tires bead.
Author:  InCommando [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
YJBeef wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
YJBeef wrote:
but the mtr's do suck in the mud???
They are 10 times better in mud then the BFG MT's.I have run both in the same mud and the MT/R's where far better,hands down.The MT/R's also didn't get cut by those tree roots like the weak BFG's did.


:? I guess colorado mud must be different than around here cause you cannot get any lateral traction whatsoever with mtr's. Bfg mt's seem to be the choice other than the typical interco swamper or irok...........


What do you think the problem with the MT/R's might be? They look good enough as far as tread design. Something must be causing the defeciency that people talk about.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
YJBeef wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
YJBeef wrote:
but the mtr's do suck in the mud???
They are 10 times better in mud then the BFG MT's.I have run both in the same mud and the MT/R's where far better,hands down.The MT/R's also didn't get cut by those tree roots like the weak BFG's did.


:? I guess colorado mud must be different than around here cause you cannot get any lateral traction whatsoever with mtr's. Bfg mt's seem to be the choice other than the typical interco swamper or irok...........
I haven't run mud here in CO,I however ran some rather deep/sticky mud in SD(where I'm origanally from).On the flat lands the extra sidewall protection and sidewall lugs really help in that forward progression in the deep stuff.Granted I rather preferr the Interco Boggers for the mud over any other tire made that is DOT approved.
Author:  YJBeef [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:
well...either it's driving skill, or tires. Not sure which, but modular's KJ seems to do better in the sloppy stuff than mine.

He should do a LOT better when he gets those Bighorns :lol:
Those Maxxis BigHorns are becomeing popular back home in SD,proven themselfs very well in the mud.They are virtually identical in tread design as the MT/R's,and Maxxis is also well known in the ATV and Motocross worlds as being a very good tires.I wouldn't mind trying there uber sticky CreepyCrawler tires,man those tire look really sick with the tread virtually going all the way to the tires bead.


I do have to say I know a few that run the creepy crawler tires and they do awesome, as far as the atv tires, I had them stock on my kodiak and they were so-so, but goodyear does make an mtr atv tire that looks identical to the street tire, only smaller, kinda cool looking!!

Quote:
What do you think the problem with the MT/R's might be? They look good enough as far as tread design. Something must be causing the defeciency that people talk about.


not sure exactly, I thought they would've done better than I've seen myself but who knows??? I also thought the same for the Mickey thompson baja claws but they too for some reason do not do to good laterally, but do great in a straight shot. Boggers too!!! You have to look at what you are going to be doing also though. Just mudding they might do better but over here, a lot of east coast trails are tight and windy so you need all different kinds of traction.....
Author:  dloc_jeep_KJ [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm running trails in Northeast TN and the MTRs have done great!!! i really like rocks so thats the main reason i went with them and they just cant be beat. Ive also had them in some sticky mud and they done pretty good for what they are and i got threw just fine. they are not a bogger tire but a really good all around tire u can run on the road as well. although i think I'm going to give maxxis bighorns a try next. or maybe even the Irok NDs and i also plan to get a set of steelies so i can mount my off road tires on them and put some ATs on my stock wheels and use them for the street since i drive so much every day
Author:  InCommando [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Those ND's look like they would wear really quick on a DD/weekend warrior, though. I am reading good things about the Bighorns.

Heck, I can't get 9,000 out of a rear tire on my H-D, so I guess shouldn't complain about Jeep tires....
Author:  dloc_jeep_KJ [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:43 am ]
Post subject: 
InCommando wrote:
Those ND's look like they would wear really quick on a DD/weekend warrior, though. I am reading good things about the Bighorns.

Heck, I can't get 9,000 out of a rear tire on my H-D, so I guess shouldn't complain about Jeep tires....


if i get the NDs they will be on another set of wheels and i will swap them out when i go wheeling. with air tools it wont take me to long even though i try to wheel every weekend. it will be well worth it for me to have to another sets of wheels since i drive so far to college every day.
ive heard the Bighorns last about as long as the MTRs and i might even try to run them on the streets just so i dont look dumb ridding around all the time with ATs on :lol: plus on easier trail (or when i get lazy) i could just leave them on when i wheel. i just dont think i could wheel with an AT tire on the trails that i run.
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