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Why you really need Snow Tires in Winter
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Author:  Liberator [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Why you really need Snow Tires in Winter
If you think all season tires will cut it in winter, watch this excellent story on Canada's CBC Marketplace on Rental Cars w/ all Seasons only. All Seasons lose grip as they harden at temps from 5-7 degrees Celsius so a softer rubber snow is better.

4x4 are only good to get you to start moving only if you have good traction ie. stuck in the snow but can't help you stop faster than a RWD or FWD car.

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/get_a_grip/

For the ave price of $650, get some snows.

Ask me how I know...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... A&start=15
Author:  snowsport [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
......
Author:  sleeve84028 [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:21 am ]
Post subject: 
You guys also get a lot colder temperatures in that area... I know a lot of people that love snow tires because of the grip they offer on icy conditions.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
The answer is simple: Nokian Vativaas or WX's! This is an all-season tire designed to be an ALL-season tire and mean it!
Author:  Liberator [ Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
SavageUrge wrote:
The answer is simple: Nokian Vativaas or WX's! This is an all-season tire designed to be an ALL-season tire and mean it!


Yah, I checked those out awhile ago but found that Consumer's Report didn't rate them as high as a dedicated Winter tire ie. Michelin Artic Alpine Ice as No 1. Also they wear faster since you are riding on them all season.

Transport Canada rates Winter tires to meet certain specs with a Winter
Snowflake designation on the tires. I recently bought the Consumer Report top rated all season Goodyear Tripletred Fortera marketed as a 'true all season' which carries this snowflake but they still don't compare to a true winter tire as articulated in the CBC story. So if you are only buying one set of tires for all seasons, check these out as well.

I did find that my dedicated snows outperformed the 'all seasons' with the Transport Canada snowflake as well. Even the KO AT tire has this snowflake but dedicated snows will outhandle it in the snow/ice.
Author:  Pote [ Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
SavageUrge wrote:
The answer is simple: Nokian Vativaas or WX's! This is an all-season tire designed to be an ALL-season tire and mean it!


+1000!!!!

multicellular compound that actually gets softer and stay soft in subzero temps.

siping that goes 100% through the tread unlike 90% of american ATs, MTs, All seasons which goes only 50% through

ten times the siping of most tires and a proprietary sipe that works on ice, snow and wet.

and on and on..... 8)
Author:  Pote [ Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Liberator wrote:
SavageUrge wrote:
The answer is simple: Nokian Vativaas or WX's! This is an all-season tire designed to be an ALL-season tire and mean it!


Yah, I checked those out awhile ago but found that Consumer's Report didn't rate them as high as a dedicated Winter tire ie. Michelin Artic Alpine Ice as No 1. Also they wear faster since you are riding on them all season.

Transport Canada rates Winter tires to meet certain specs with a Winter
Snowflake designation on the tires. I recently bought the Consumer Report top rated all season Goodyear Tripletred Fortera marketed as a 'true all season' which carries this snowflake but they still don't compare to a true winter tire as articulated in the CBC story. So if you are only buying one set of tires for all seasons, check these out as well.

I did find that my dedicated snows outperformed the 'all seasons' with the Transport Canada snowflake as well. Even the KO AT tire has this snowflake but dedicated snows will outhandle it in the snow/ice.


take a look at Nokia's test facitlity....it will make those other tires snow flake fall right off the sidewall. Nokians are rated for 118 mph on snow conditions. they blow away about every tire for cornering, stoping and starting on snow ice and wet. There isn't a snowflake on the side of the Vatiiva AT yet because it wasn't submitted in time for 2007. It will appear on there shortly...not like it matters. M+S is the same as a snowflake. LOL
Author:  Guest [ Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pote wrote:
M+S is the same as a snowflake. LOL


UHHH, no it's not. My MT/R's carry the M+S marking, too...and IIRC the stock Wrangler ST's do as well. M+S only means it has two or more uninterrupted circumferential grooves...it means absolutely zilch for winter or mud traction.
Author:  Liberator [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
M+S is more for marketing their tires... to have the snowflake via Transport Canada, they have to pass certain performance requirements but they are not extremely difficult....

As the video shows in my original post, the crappiest snow tire still outperforms the best all season but what I advocate is to buy the best snow tire available. Again Consumer Reports compares them side by side objectively.

Articles:
If you’re like most people in this country, you don’t have winter tires on your car right now. You bought “all-season” tires, and you figured all-season meant spring, summer, fall and winter, and so now you drive on the same set whether it’s plus-thirty or minus-fifteen.

You would probably be surprised to learn that “all season” tires stiffen up considerably at low temperatures, which makes them bad at gripping and good at sliding. That means that on ice your car will travel much further after you hit the brakes than it would have if you were on winter tires. And that can mean the difference between a near miss and a crash.

You would probably also be surprised to learn that, outside Quebec (where they will shortly be required by law), there is no way to rent a car with winter tires. Not in Ontario, not in Alberta, and not even in the snowy mountains of British Columbia. In this report, we ask two race-car drivers to do some test drives and see first-hand the difference tires can make to road safety. And Wendy Mesley asks why the people who market tires still use the phrase “all season.”

Your winter tire questions answered
Last week's show about winter tires drew many comments and emails from viewers. This week, Wendy Mesley took your questions to professional driver Andrew Comrie-Picard. Here are his answers.

Q. The demonstration showed winter tires in snow. Are winter tires better on ice (especially black ice)?

A. Yes. we would have seen an even greater advantage for the winter tires on ice because it’s the tire’s compound that adheres to the surface of the ice. That’s something all season tires don’t have.

Q. How do winter tires perform on pavement, when there is no snow or ice?

A. The whole point of winter tires is the soft rubber compound, so when it gets cold, they stay supple. They stay more like foam rubber than a hockey puck. You can imagine on a dry piece of pavement when it’s cold out, push a hockey puck across the surface, it’s still pretty hard rubber and doesn’t really adhere to the surface, whereas a foam rubber sort of digs in and grabs the surface better. When it’s cold, you’re always going to get better traction on a winter tire. In fact, even in summer on a dry pavement, you’ll get better traction on a winter tire than you would with an all season tire.

Q. Are "all weather" tires winter tires?

A. The all weather tire is another designation that’s thrown around especially by a couple of brand names. It’s a tire that’s just soft enough or just pliable enough to qualify as a winter tire that’s in the compound of the tread blocks, but designed to be used all year long, more like an all season. The problem is that it’s not perfect at either thing. It’s still too hard to be fully optimized as a winter tire. You’re better off getting a pure winter tire.

Q. Do you really need four winter tires, or can you get by with just two?

A. That’s a very bad idea. You’re almost creating a more dangerous scenario by going to only two winter tires instead of four, because you’re creating an inherent handling imbalance. You’ve got great traction on one end and poor traction on the other. For example, take a front wheel drive car and put winter tires on the front, so you can accelerate better. Under braking weight transfers to the front, so you get good traction on the front, and you're still able to steer with those good winter tires you have on the front. But if you still have all seasons on the back, those brakes lock up and suddenly the car’s inherently unstable. It can spin off the road backwards, or worse hit something else. Always put on four winter tires.

Q. Winter tires are made of softer rubber. Doesn’t that mean they will get worn down quickly?

A. No. That’s a great thing about winter tires. If you use them in the winter, and use them when it’s cold, they don’t wear very quickly at all. Only when the temperature is higher, and by high I mean 5 or 7 celsius, do they start to wear away at an unacceptably quick rate. As long as it’s cold out, especially if it’s wet out, especially if there’s ice or snow, they wear very little at all, and they’ll last a lot of seasons.
Author:  Pote [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still stand by the fact that Nokian Vatiivas or Hakkas can be put up against the VERY BEST snow tires and will come out with glowing reviews. They are only about the most popular tyres in Northern Europe...think feet of snow in the Alps. Take a look at their technology and you will be a believer...drive on them and you will know for a fact. They can go head to head with ANY snow tire and they are ATs...not All Seasons, but ATS for summer. Now imagine their winter lineup...they put traditional snow tires to shame.
Author:  snowsport [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
........
Author:  Rush345 [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
What about all the hype about the Firestone Blizzack tires?? They were supposed to be the greatest thing since Rubber tires.
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