Plus, the mixture of gasses commonly known as AIR is 78.08% nitrogen already... like tommudd said I wouldn't be paying for it
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| Nitrogen or Air? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33837 |
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| Author: | ObiHann [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Nitrogen or Air? |
When I bought my 02 liberty the dealership had all the tires filled with nitrogen. I'm getting new tires in the next few months and figure I should get nitrogen in then again, at least because of the better mileage, and the fact there are stickers in random places (fuel cap, etc) that say nitrogen lol. Whats your opinion? |
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| Author: | tommudd [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:51 am ] |
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If you have to pay extra for it I wouldnt air is FREE |
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| Author: | KeswickDave [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:36 am ] |
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Plus, the mixture of gasses commonly known as AIR is 78.08% nitrogen already... like tommudd said I wouldn't be paying for it
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| Author: | Inc [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:39 pm ] |
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My dad runs nitrogen in his tires and they said if he ever needs a tire fill up it is free. They guarantee them not to leak with nitrogen I guess. He has lifetime tire replacement free also due to road hazards so he is set there too. It cost him $25 for all his tires. If you do any off roading where you will want to air down it is a waste though. I use on board CO2 to air up after a good trail run and I think it would be too expensive to fill my tank with nitrogen and use it the same way I use my CO2. The only advantage I know of is that nitro won't leak apparently, so if you plan on letting air out and filling back up, why bother? |
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| Author: | Blue KJ in PA [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:55 pm ] |
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http://www.straightdope.com/columns/070216.html Most tires are filled with compressed air, which when dry consists of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and 1 percent other gases by volume. Water vapor (humidity) can make up as much as 5 percent of the volume of air under worst-case conditions. Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. If the N2 is free than go for it...otherwise go to another shop. http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html Consumer Reports wanted to find out if nitrogen is worth the price, so we purchased a Nitrogen Inflation System and checked out how well the inflation held up over a one year period. We evaluated pairs of 31 tire models of H- and V-speed rated, all-season tires used in our tread wear test from 2006. We filled one tire per model with air and the other with nitrogen. The test was quite simple: fill and set the inflation pressure at room temperature to 30 psi (pounds per square inch); set the tire outdoors for one year; and then recheck the inflation pressure at room temperature after a one year period. The tires were filled and deflated three times with nitrogen to purge the air out of the tire cavity. We also used an oxygen analyzer to be sure we had 95-percent nitrogen purity in the tire--the claimed purity limit of our nitrogen system, which generates nitrogen gas from ambient air. The test started on September 20, 2006 and the final measurements were taken on September 20, 2007. The results show nitrogen does reduce pressure loss over time, but the reduction is only a 1.3 psi difference from air-filled tires. The average loss of air-filled tires was just 3.5 psi from the initial 30 pressure setting. Nitrogen-filled tires lost an average of 2.2 psi from the initial 30 psi setting. More important, all tires lost air pressure regardless of the inflation medium, so consumers should check their tires' air pressure routinely. No evaluation was done to assess the aging claim. Bottom line: Overall, consumers can use nitrogen and might enjoy the slight improvement in air retention provided, but it's not a substitute for regular inflation checks |
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| Author: | tommudd [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Its a marketing tool, just like all the other stuff they try to sell you, anyone who knows anything about a vehicle checks the air in their tires every month at least or should. Its not worth it at all. Its for lazy people , which NONE of us are! |
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| Author: | VTNomad [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Nitrogen |
A buddy of mine sells the nitrogen generators to dealerships and garages. I'm kind of surprised about how much money he makes doing it, but it is going really well for him. He gives them the machine and the garages pay him a fee for every tire they fill with his generators. The garages charge anywhere between $2-$8 per tire. As stated above, the chief benefits are removing water vapor, and oxygen. Not only does oxygen diffuse out more quickly, it also oxidizes the interior of your tires/wheels. Again, its a minimal effect. If you check your you pressure regularly, nitrogen is of no benefit to you. If you're lazy, and don't have to worry about your pressure, nitrogen is a little better than plain old air. Where I live, in the spring and fall, temperatures can vary by as much as 60 degrees in a single day. I was having a difficult time finding a pressure that prevented the low pressure alarm from going off in the mornings, and the high pressure alarm from going off in the afternoons. Once I switched to nitrogen, I haven't had the problem since. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:57 pm ] |
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Don't forget to switch your winter air for summer air in your tires,or nitrogen  !!!!!!!!!
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| Author: | durangotang [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:36 pm ] |
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I've been using Hydrogen for years.... 
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| Author: | Fouros [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:36 pm ] |
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i am airing down too much to bother with nitrogen in my tyres |
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| Author: | InCommando [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nitrogen or Air? |
ObiHann wrote: When I bought my 02 liberty the dealership had all the tires filled with nitrogen. I'm getting new tires in the next few months and figure I should get nitrogen in then again, at least because of the better mileage, and the fact there are stickers in random places (fuel cap, etc) that say nitrogen lol. Whats your opinion?
Squeeze me? That is the marketing ploy discussed. The differences cited ( which may be even smaller outside of controlled measures) would cause no noticable MPG difference. Snake oil, my friend. |
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| Author: | rt_power [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:40 pm ] |
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N2 is an inert gas which means its pressure doesn't respond to the increase temperature. from what i know nitrogen dose not eliminate moisture so removing the moisture would have to be considered. now the down fall is what happens when u get a leak and your 20 miles from a station that has N2. what would be the point in paying 25 bucks to pay another 25 bucks to have your tires re inflated. im lucky i have a constant supply in the service van but for the normal joe whats the point |
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| Author: | VTNomad [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:16 pm ] |
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rt_power wrote: N2 is an inert gas which means its pressure doesn't respond to the increase temperature. from what i know nitrogen dose not eliminate moisture so removing the moisture would have to be considered. now the down fall is what happens when u get a leak and your 20 miles from a station that has N2. what would be the point in paying 25 bucks to pay another 25 bucks to have your tires re inflated. im lucky i have a constant supply in the service van but for the normal joe whats the point
WHOA! N2 is an inert gas, but that doesn't mean that its pressure does not change with temperature. Inert means that it does not react chemically with other substances. ALL gases respond the same way (although proportionally different, based on a coefficient of expansion unique to each substance). An increase in temperature, in an enclosed space where volume is constant, such as a tire, will result in an increase in pressure. And vice versa, as increase in pressure will result in an increase in temperature. It's called the ideal gas law. PV = nRT where P is the absolute pressure of the gas, V is the volume of the gas, n is the number of moles of gas, R is the universal gas constant (or the coefficient of expansion for your particular gas), T is the absolute temperature. Because the equation must remained balanced, an increase/decrease to a variable on one side of equation causes the variable on the other side to increase by the same amount. Notice how temperature and pressure are on opposite sides. nR and V for the most part, don't change. So when the pressure changes, so must the temperature, and vice versa. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:22 pm ] |
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Forget regular old air or nitrogen for filling your tires!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use helium,it will make your vehicle lighter thus better mpg's 
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| Author: | JL Rockies [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:33 pm ] |
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if you use helium will your exhaust sound high pitched and squeeky? |
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| Author: | Albert [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:37 pm ] |
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I would like to try helium so I can get a lift.......errr wait what were we talkin about???......oh yea, Nitrogen.... I just run 78% of that Nitrogen stuff and 21% oxygen mix and 1% other stuff and have never had a problem. It keeps my rims off the ground good. |
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| Author: | tjkoen01 [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:08 am ] |
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VTNomad wrote: rt_power wrote: N2 is an inert gas which means its pressure doesn't respond to the increase temperature. from what i know nitrogen dose not eliminate moisture so removing the moisture would have to be considered. now the down fall is what happens when u get a leak and your 20 miles from a station that has N2. what would be the point in paying 25 bucks to pay another 25 bucks to have your tires re inflated. im lucky i have a constant supply in the service van but for the normal joe whats the point WHOA! N2 is an inert gas, but that doesn't mean that its pressure does not change with temperature. Inert means that it does not react chemically with other substances. ALL gases respond the same way (although proportionally different, based on a coefficient of expansion unique to each substance). An increase in temperature, in an enclosed space where volume is constant, such as a tire, will result in an increase in pressure. And vice versa, as increase in pressure will result in an increase in temperature. It's called the ideal gas law. PV = nRT where P is the absolute pressure of the gas, V is the volume of the gas, n is the number of moles of gas, R is the universal gas constant (or the coefficient of expansion for your particular gas), T is the absolute temperature. Because the equation must remained balanced, an increase/decrease to a variable on one side of equation causes the variable on the other side to increase by the same amount. Notice how temperature and pressure are on opposite sides. nR and V for the most part, don't change. So when the pressure changes, so must the temperature, and vice versa. i'm glad you explained it, otherwise I would have felt obligated. |
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| Author: | KJ Taz [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:35 am ] |
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Just remember people want your money. They will come up with a lot of crap to try to get it out of you. |
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