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| Wanna lose the wheel weights? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34343 |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Wanna lose the wheel weights? |
Been following a topic on the CO4x4 board for some time about using AirSoft pellets to balance your tires,seems to work very good for the most part and many poeple have run them for many miles at highway speeds with no problems.I will be using this for my SFA in which I'll be running 35" tires. Kinda a "how to" thread.......... http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=128093 |
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| Author: | JL Rockies [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:28 pm ] |
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What will they think of next? |
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| Author: | bugnout [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Very interesting. I just spent $20 to have my two front tires rebalanced. for about the same amount, I can get lifetime dynamic balancing  I can't seem to keep them balanced now.
I think I'm going to give this a try too. If I read the chart correctly, looks like its about 5 ounces per tire for 245x75 R16's. |
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| Author: | daspes [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:28 pm ] |
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I did these with my 33's on my TJ. Worked great. Really helpfully when running larger tires that don't balance easily. |
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| Author: | Inc [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:40 pm ] |
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Does this make any noise when going at low speeds that wouldn't keep the pellets pressed out like they would be at highway speeds? Like rock crawling. |
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| Author: | daspes [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
incubusmike wrote: Does this make any noise when going at low speeds that wouldn't keep the pellets pressed out like they would be at highway speeds? Like rock crawling.
None that I was able to hear. Of course I had BFG KM's, not top, no doors, and a beat up cherry bomb muffler. |
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| Author: | JL Rockies [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:34 pm ] |
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I am imagining that toddler lawn mower with the little balls that pop all around in the plastic dome as you push it. |
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| Author: | jsc7002 [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:57 pm ] |
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so you just dump them into the tire? I guess I dont get how it works? |
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| Author: | Inc [ Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:00 am ] |
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Crazy physics. If you go to the link Troy posted down a bit on the site there is a video explaining it. Cool stuff. |
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| Author: | jsc7002 [ Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:25 am ] |
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incubusmike wrote: Crazy physics. If you go to the link Troy posted down a bit on the site there is a video explaining it. Cool stuff.
i did but i still dont really get how the BBs work |
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| Author: | Inc [ Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
They counteract where the heavy end of the wheel and tire are and get pressed into the opposite end when spinning, which balances the weight. |
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| Author: | InCommando [ Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There are places that well send you pre-packed "doses" to put in each of your wheels depending on the size/load range of the tire. |
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| Author: | Moosey [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can't say I'm an expert in this, but it seems like it works because of Centripetal Force. That link has some good information on that. Along with that concept, I believe it is just like wrapping a rope around a box and pulling it along, the box does not lean against your body, but instead against the rope on the opposite side. Does that make sense, or does that just seem like gibberish? |
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| Author: | bugnout [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:19 pm ] |
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OK, Did this mod this morning, and learned alot I planned to only do the front tires, so if it didn't work out I would only be out the work for 2 wheels. I have been having difficultly getting the fronts balanced and had both the fronts rebalanced 3 times in the last 6 months. Thought I was having issues after wheeling with maybe spinning the tire on the rim or throwing wheel weights. Anyway thought this would be a good trial Took off the wheels removed the stem and broke the bead using the hi-lift method recommended. I took 4 ounces of weights off the right front and 10 ounces off the left, drivers side  . Well I was planning on using 5 ounces of beads on each side but when I saw the 10 ounces I figured I better bump it up.
I put 8 ounces in each tire, had difficulty getting the left front to tire to seat, Also noticed that the left front wheel bead area had lots of dirt. Got them both seated and mounted and took it out for a ride, -- Absolutely awful vibration, definitely not balancing. Thought about it for a while and realized that the left front is the wheel I popped a bead on in Feb down at Badlands. At the time it filled with water and mud. I cleaned it up as much as possible and took it to a tire shop. I should have had them take the tire off the rim and clean both, I thought I got it all and any I missed they would get. I'll bet they just reseated and balanced it with some dirt/mud still in it. Should have been a red flag seeing 10 ounces on that wheel. Ok so I took the spare removed the 4 ounces of wheel weights and added 8 ounces of beads to it and mounted it in place of the left front. Took it for a ride out on the highway and no vibration, seems perfectly smooth. I'll post later after I've put some miles on them. Lessons learned: 5 Ounces should have been enough for my 245X75 R16 MTR's . If you have more than 5 ounces of wheel weights, there is probably some other issue. Although 5 ounces should have been enough, it doesn't seem to have hurt putting 8 ounces in, we will see over time. Took about 20 minutes per wheel, easy with the right tools. and finally, If you pop a bead and get mud and water in the tire, have the tire removed from the rim and clean both completely. 
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| Author: | VTNomad [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thoughts from a scientist |
The reason this works is because of centripetal force. When your tires are spinning, in theory, an equal amount of force is exerted on all points around the tire, unless the tire is out of balance. The reason tires can be out of balance is because of slight weight differences in certain areas. If the tire is light in one spot, less force (force = mass x acceleration, and the acceleration is constant around the circumference of the tire) is exerted by that point. So the beads would naturally find the point with the least amount of force and come to rest there. If one spot is heavier than the rest of the tire, the beads would spread out, away from that spot, around the tire and counteract the heavy spot. A liquid should also have this same effect, but you would need something that would remain liquid in all the temperature ranges your tires experience. Avoid anything with high freezing points and low boiling points. You won't need as much weight with the beads as you do with the metal weights because theyh are further from the axis of rotation. Think of each point as a level, with the hub as the fulcrum. The longer the lever, the less force you need to do the same amount of work. Example: You have 3oz of metal weights on a 16 inch wheel, the weights are 8 inches from the center. To convert it to bead weight, find the distance the beads will be from the center and set up a ratio. So let's say the radius to the inside of the tire from the center of the hub is 20 inches, 25% greater than the radius of the wheel. If your radius is 25% greater, you'll need 25% less weight, 2.25oz. A few other things to think about: What kind of wear and tear are these beads causing to the inside of the tire and wheel? Will these metal/plastic BB's A couple of other things to think about: How much wear and tear on the inside of the tire are these BB's causing? The insides of the tires weren't designed to resist wear and tear. Would they gradually wear down to dust (think rock tumbler)? Would this dust affect the valve stem or bead of a tire/rim? This would also increase the rotational inertia of your wheel/tire, would would result in decreased handling and increased braking distance. Although a few ounces of material won't make much difference. |
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| Author: | Moosey [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I liked my explanation, its simpler. And if you add some info on false forces, and moment of inertia, you may have yourself a full physics lecture. Speaking of which, you would think these guys would know what they're talking about when trying to sell the product. Look at page 5 |
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| Author: | bugnout [ Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The explanation on page 5 leads me to believe too much is not a good thing, especially if its a lot too much since the beads, not needed for balancing, just spread out on opposite sides uniformly. If there are a lot of extra beads, might take some time for this to happen, transitions from stop to steady state will take longer and not be smooth. Seems to me you want to get as close as possible to the optimum mass of beads. New posts on the thread tjkj posted. Their results support that, in fact the best results were had by minimizing the quantity used. Recommendation was to have your tires "patch balanced" at a tire shop to determine the right amount of beads to add. Turns out its considerably less than the recommended amount on the dynabead website. Patch balancing is used for race tires to eliminate the lead weights. You don't have the tire shop apply any patches, just have them test each tire and get the data the machine spits out for the optimum amount of beads. Drove to work this morning and had no issues, no wobbles or hops at any speed, I'm liking this compared to what I had before, but as I stated before, my issues were of my on making |
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| Author: | SBosco [ Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Does this really work as well as you are making it out to? No noise, internal tire damage, etc? |
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| Author: | Moosey [ Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bugnout wrote: The explanation on page 5 leads me to believe too much is not a good thing, especially if its a lot too much since the beads, not needed for balancing, just spread out on opposite sides uniformly.
You're probably right, too much of a good thing is just adding unnecessary weight to your tires; but what I was trying to point out is that they were talking about 'centrifugal force', which does not exist. They are stating that the balls are pushed to the outside, while in fact the tire is pulling them to the inside. My question is still if anybody has checked the inside of their tires since they've done this? Any inside tire-wear or broken/worn down beads? |
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| Author: | SBosco [ Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[quote="Moosey] My question is still if anybody has checked the inside of their tires since they've done this? Any inside tire-wear or broken/worn down beads?[/quote] Exactly, that information would be uber-informative. Also, do these beads hurt the TPMS sensors? I can't imagine that it's good for them to be pelted with ceramic beads, especially since the sensors are made of plastic and are much softer than the ceramic dynabeads. Is everybody else here running the TPMS sensors in their wheels with the beads? |
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