Mudding

rickm · **Posted:** Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:05 am

I work as a broadcast engineer. We have some transmitter sites that are on mountaintops that are difficult to get to at times.

With the recent extremely heavy rains here in Central California, today was one of those days.

Although it wasn't raining today, it has rained very heavy in the last couple of days, and we had a pretty hard rain last night..

Today, our transmitter site on Shultz Mountain in Cathey's Valley, California had some problems so I had to go up to the site.

Usually, I don't like going up there for a couple of days after it's rained to give the ground a chance to soak up the water and to firm up before I drive on it.

Well, today many parts of the road were soupy sloppy mud, several inches deep.

I was extremely impressed with my KK. It went right through that mud with no problems, even with the stock Goodyear tires. I was amazed.

We are basically about 100 feet above sea level here, but the mountain top is about 2,500 feet. So we go from 100 feet to 2500 feet in just a couple of miles, so the trail is very steep most of the way up.

At one point, I had to stop and let my passenger get out and move a large rock out of the way that had fallen into the road. I was stopped at a fairly steep angle, and noticed the brakes were sort of soft and went almost all the way to the floor. Then suddenly, I realized it was the hill ascent. I took my foot off the brakes, and it just stayed there, until I started to accelerate. That was pretty cool, but the feel of the brake pedal was a little strange while it was happening.

When I started down the mountain, I turned on the Hill Descent. WTF is that all about? I was in 4 wheel low and in low gear. The thing makes this chattering weird sound from the front end. Is that the brakes modulating? What is all that strange noise going on? I guess it would have been ok for some very serious hill descent, but I found that just plain old 4 wheel low range and low gear worked great for me.

Has anyone else used Hill Descent? Did you experience the same chattering noise from your front end or front brakes?

Overall, I was very happy with the KK. I'm not sure if my KJ would have made it up that hill or not today, and I know my old Isuzu Rodeo would not have made it. The KK worked great.

rickm · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:09 am

I don't think I was slipping. I was in 4 wheel low and in low gear with hill descent turned on. When I would speed up and let off the acelerator, it would chatter. I'm assuming it was the brakes?

Hasn't anyone else used the hill descent feature yet? Surely Digger has used it

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:01 pm

deffinately a good job to have when you want to test the capabilities of your rig. though i am sure the kj would have made it up no problem either, as you said yourself, you didnt even need those little fancy hill desent controls.

you should invest in a nice camera and get some pics of this, it sounds fun!

toy4everyseason · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:22 am

Your right, the chattering is the breaks activating. The hill decent just makes it so you don't need to ride the breaks down hill. If I remember correctly its something like 7mph when in Drive & 4LO. If you really want to hear it clickin' try putting it in 1st and activate the decent assist, I think thats something like 1mph speed. You can make it go faster by giving it gas but the system will still be working to an extent. Just a tool to help keep your mind on the road instead of break modulation.

rickm · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:50 am

ok, thanks, I figured that it was the brakes chattering like that. I was in 4 wheel Low range and in low/first gear, so it was keeping me at 1 MPH. The chattering really got bad when I would speed up, then let up on the acelerator.
Next time I go up there, I'll try 2nd gear coming back down. I think that's supposed to be 3 MPH. I know 7 MPH in drive would be way to fast for that road in most places.

KK · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:30 pm

The HDC your referring too, the sound that is, is you are not supposed to give it any gas while it is engaged going down the hill, the sound you heard was the jeep telling you you are not supposed to do that, you let off the brake it does the rest on it's own. Giving it gas in HDC will actually ruin the sensors it uses to do the job properly.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:40 pm

sorry to hi jack but kk, is you kk lifted?

rickm · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:36 am

KK wrote:

The HDC your referring too, the sound that is, is you are not supposed to give it any gas while it is engaged going down the hill, the sound you heard was the jeep telling you you are not supposed to do that, you let off the brake it does the rest on it's own. Giving it gas in HDC will actually ruin the sensors it uses to do the job properly.

umm... say what? that's not what page 322 & 323 of the owners manual says. It says if more speed is desired during HDC control, the accelerator pedal will increase vehicle speed in the usual manner. I don't see anything in there about ruining any sensors.

KK · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:17 am

Maybe I mis stated, what I meant is the driver is not supposed to push the gas pedal down in HDC mode due to wheel sensing from brake torgue on downgrade, the jeep does it for you, from what I read on your post I got that you were giving xtra gas on pedal in HDC. Sorry.

rickm · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:05 am

KK wrote:

Maybe I mis stated, what I meant is the driver is not supposed to push the gas pedal down in HDC mode due to wheel sensing from brake torgue on downgrade, the jeep does it for you, from what I read on your post I got that you were giving xtra gas on pedal in HDC. Sorry.

that's exactly what I was doing, and that's exactly what the owners manual says you can do. It says if you want more speed to push on the accelerator. That's what I did, because it seemed like 1 MPH was just way to slow at that moment. I'll have to try it again in 2nd gear at 3 MPH. I think the thing will even work with the transmission in neutral.

KK · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:19 am

Ok dude relax!! I am not attacking, you have your opinion and I have mine, we are at a conundrum. Lest we are obtuse. Doubtful. Moot point.

rickm · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:38 pm

I didn't feel like you were attacking me. However, I do feel that you were/are giving out some mis-information here. You said in a post above that if you try to accelerate while in Hill Descent mode that you will ruin some sort of sensors. I was stating that the Jeep Owners Manual states on Page 322 & 323 states that you can accelerate while in Hill Descent mode. Obviously, what I was doing was trying to go slightly faster than the 1 MPH in Hill Descent/Low Gear, and letting up on the accelerator. The chattering was probably the brakes slowing the vehiclle back down to 1 MPH from about 2 or 3 MPH that I had accelerated to. However, you may have a different owners manual than I have, so it may not be on that exact same page. If you have some information regarding ruining sensors, then please tell us where to read about it.

KK · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:50 pm

Ok, Also I think it should be taken into account that your in a stick, and I drive auto, so yes, technically are manual(s) may indeed be different, I actually don't know if there are two different ones as I never flipped to those pages since my dealer and friend and jeep fanatic just explained it to me rather than me reading the actual pages you refer too. Enjoy your day, going to gym, de-stress time. Matt

John91C · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:33 pm

Okay to be in the middle of this...I have an automatic and have HDC, even though I haven't used it yet. Page 332 of the Owner's Manual for the automatic states, verbatim from the manual:

"The speed corresponds to the transmission gear selected. However, the driver can override HDC operation by applying the brake to slow the vehicle down below the HDC control speed. Conversely, if more speed is desired during HDC control, the accelerator pedal will increase vehicle speed in the usual manner. When either the brake or the accelerator is released, HDC will control the vehicle at the original speed set".

Gear:

1st: set 1 mph
2nd: set 3 mph
Drive: set 7.5 mph
Reverse: set 1 mph
Neutral: set 3 mph

So I have no idea what the grinding noise was but I think Rick is right in thinking that it's the brakes resetting itself to the "set" speed after he let the accelerator pedal go.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:33 pm

Ok, sticks DO NOT HAVE HDC.. they only have hill start assist. my thought is either 1.. your esp/tcs kicked in due to the jeep sensing wheel slippage or 2....that is how the hdc controls the speed of the vehicle...

KK · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:55 pm

thanks for pointing this out, makes sense. good job, matt

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:58 pm

i figures i put in my 2 cents...now rick...did the sound sound like the abs pumps working?

rickm · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:24 am

KK wrote:

Ok, Also I think it should be taken into account that your in a stick, and I drive auto, so yes, technically are manual(s) may indeed be different, I actually don't know if there are two different ones as I never flipped to those pages since my dealer and friend and jeep fanatic just explained it to me rather than me reading the actual pages you refer too. Enjoy your day, going to gym, de-stress time. Matt

I have an automatic transmission. Don't know why you'd think I have a stick shift. If your Jeep Dealer friend told you that you would ruin some sort of sensor by accelerating the JK while in HDC, then you may want to ask him to read the manual

I've concluded that it was the ABS that kicked in to slow the vehicle down, as John stated.

I was going down a fairly steep hill, and was in 4 wheel drive Low Range and Low Gear (automatic transmission). As stated in the manual, it maintains the vehicle at 1 mile per hour. I wanted to go a bit faster, so I accelerated as the owners manual says I can do. I acellerated to maybe 2 or 3 miles per hour. It was when I let up on the acellerator that I heard the chattering noise.

I'm not used to ABS lock ups I guess, so I was just surprised at the sound and wondering if anyone else had experienced the same noise using HDC.

Next time I'm going to use 2nd gear or neutral..... I'm thinking neutral should be fun :lol:

7.5 MPH is just way to fast for that mountain.

rickm · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:32 am

Diggerfreek wrote:

i figures i put in my 2 cents...now rick...did the sound sound like the abs pumps working?

I'm guessing that's what it was Digger, I'm just not used to ABS lockups.. Surely, someone else will try it soon and give us a report.

Mudding

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