Gris, I agree and I'm not trying to be argumetative or anything I just think that Jeep has to evolve to stay in the game. Niche companies come and go, but for the average car buyer they want "just a car."



The Jeep Compass has one of the highest Turnover rates for the jeep line up. meaning they pull more people from other brands of vehicles (toyota / honda) than any other model in the line up. People buy the "car Jeep" because it's a JEEP. They like that fact and it's a great selling point.

The Compass comes with a AWD/4x4 (no low range) option. It's more capable than a toyota Matrix or a Honda Civic...




The FJ is more capable than the Liberty true enough. The Liberty still outsold it though....

_________________
02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

This is the same reason that Porsche introduced the Cayenne. they're still a sports car company, but the SUV lets them be able to AFFORD to keep building sports cars. the Patriot and Compass can help insure the Wrangler's survival by keeping the brand afloat with sales, ditto the Liberty and Grand Cherokee, and to a lesser extent the Wago...er, I mean the Commander

Sure it'd be nice to have solid Dana 44s at both ends with gas-sucking 360s and 390s and T18 4 speeds and NP205 t-cases in the GC and Commander...but how many people would actually buy one, besides us? the Wagoneer sold fairly well for what it was back in the day, but I'm also sure that if there was a more civilized SUV in the same era it would've outsold the Wagoneer. The fact is that very few people actually give a rat's butt about their vehicle going off road, so our new-car market is going to get smaller...but more specialized. Ford needs to bring back the Bronco, maybe loosely based on the Ranger with a solid D30 front/8.8 rear, about the same wheelbase as the old 2 door Exploder, and make it be able to stuff 265s stock:D maybe even do the old half-cab fiberglass top too...since retro is the chic thing

I agree with both statements. Thing is that while Porsche is still making specialty sports cars, several of them, in addition to an SUV that is marketed for it's speed, not it's off-road agility. They aren't saying "Look at us climb this hill", they are saying "Look how fast this big-arse ugly SUV can move.

Jeep now only makes ONE off-road vehicle. They've almost completely destroyed the off-road capability of all vehicles that aren't the Wrangler. Thus taking away their edge in the SUV market. There is absolutely no off-road difference between an Escape and a Patriot, a GC/Libby and an exploder. THAT is what the problem is. Jeep still markets and advertises the off-road ability in all of its vehicles that only exists in one.

Jeep was always the "rugged" option. The company you knew made a vehicle that would go where no others could, and make it back alive. The "comfortable" option were Blazers and Exploders. Jeep traded rugged for comfortable, did it poorly, and lost their spot.

I'm not saying "Don't Diversify". Spread out, see what works, but don't give up what made you a strong company for over 50 years. Don't give up the very thing that makes your name come to someone's mind when they see a 4x4 symbol.

_________________
-oooooo- ---Craig, L.O.S.T. #CT068103
/______\ ---http://jeep.allgris.com
O||||||||O ---'02 Sport 4x4, 5-spd,
[]--------[] ---2.5" BDS lift, 245/75/16 MT/Rs, Moab Rims, Locked and Regeared!
[]_____[] ---The list got to long, go to my web site for more!

New KK -

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=23760

Patriot -

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipmen ... /index.htm

I'm sorry, but I don't see Ford Explorers doing that stuff. Maybe Broncos, but not Explorers.

As for the Escape: http://www.autobuyguide.com/2005/12-aut ... index.html


The same people on the Liberty: http://www.autobuyguide.com/2005/12-aut ... index.html


Across the line Jeeps tend to be superior in thier given class when it comes to off roading. Even in vehicles like the Patriot or Compass. Sure those vehicles are not comparable to a Wrangler by any means, but they always do better than the norm compared to other brands cars(take a Dodge Caliber off road, its the same platform as the Compass but I guarantee you'll regret it far more).

There are certainly competitors to Jeep in the market, Land Rover and Toyota LandCruisers come to mind, but they are NOT competing with Explorers and Escapes for off-roading ability.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

I'm wondering what makes the 08 Liberty less capable off road than the 02-07, especially the 02 Sports. Could it be the addition of the hill descent system, or possibly traction control? I know it ain't the tires, because they're the same junk that have come on the KJ since day one. Don't swing around that under-the-cargo-floor-spare-tire, either, because the 4runner, Rodeo, Pathfinder, etc have been doing that for a LONG time. My dad's 96 Exploder Sport 4x4 2 door was easily just as capable as my Liberty is (if they're on comparable tires...that Exploder had some junk-arse GY Wrangler RT/S's on it...course...it was rolled almost a decade ago and the likelyhood of finding somebody with a stock 2 door exploder to compare to an 02-07 and 08 Liberty off road...well...now I'm rambling)

I think you guys are being way too rough on the new kid on the block before you even see what it can do off road in stock form. Clint is the only person here that I can think of qualified to discuss the KK's off road abilities IMO.

Black_Dog " William" First I would really like to thank you for taking the time to post here. Welcome to our LOST group. Please feel free to post anytime. I know it may sound like we are just picking on your review but we have a lot of very proud KJ owners and a lot of new folks that are looking at the KK as a new Jeep for themselves.

I just got back from the media launch in Indy and I feel a lot of the media folks were very pleased with the way the new KK performed off road. Yes I have to agree that it does fit the cute ut mold for dang sure but it also has a lot of very cool new features that will get a lot of new folks introduced to the off road world. Once they have seen what a great time they will have off road they might move to other Jeeps like the Rubi and enjoy it even more. We have seen this many times in the past with a lot of the KJ owners.

Please dont think that we are not wanting guys like yourself to post and play part in the future things going on with Jeep. Again the LOST group has put up with a long history of hearing about how bad the KJ was at first but after guys starting modding them, going to Moab, solid axle and may other things... The KJ is not looking so bad to a lot of folks. All new Jeeps get a bad rap right...

Thanks again for posting and please stick around and keep letting us know what you guy think. Welcome to the LOST Group. Later...Clint[/b]

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http://lostkjwest.com
http://www.azlostkj.com
http://lostzj.com
KE7JLP

The part "The Liberty’s sloppy handling dynamics are only bested (or should I say worsted) by the dreadful Chevy Trailblazer." Those were fighting words. It is clear the guy who wrote the article had something stuck up his exhaust. No facts just his biased opinion,

_________________
Sold 05 CRD Patriot Blue, hole in the roof, Trailer tow, factory skids, LSD, Saris load bars, Michelin LTX M/S
Current Bright white 2010 Dakota Quad Cab 4x4 V8

the only thing I will agree with in that review is the highway speed floating. It does seem harder to keep this KK in a straight heading but dang does this thing do a number off road. The looks are a love it or hate it thing. No one has offered a in between view of it. All the plastic inside makes it easy to clean and care for. Bash my KK all you want because I know what I bought and what I bought it for and its not soccer practice.

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08 KK OEM skid plates, JK winch bumper w/ Hella 500s, K&N filter, JKS front discos, black out headlights w/ fogs added, blacked out & euro mod tail lights, Curt Hitch w/ oem wiring, OME Springs, JBA UCA & top plates, Cabin Filter Retro Fit, Custom Fender Mounted Light Mounts w/ Hella 500s, ATH roof bars, rear flush mount LEDs

I've had folks I ride bikes with tell me to run away from my Liberty. I tell them they are nuts and it is a good vehicle.

I believe the aftermarket will come up with solutions the factory didn't fix.

I still didn't see any kind of off-road test.

Any first year vehicle is gonna have bugs. Jeep is one of the few folks that likes to hang on to a platform and make it better the longer they have it.

_________________
06 Sport
05 BMW R1200GS "the other Jeep"
1972 Triumph TR6R "Bettie"
http://www.cardomain.com/id/pinecone59

I would like to see the old face on the newer rear section.

The KK is too square for me.

_________________
06 Sport
05 BMW R1200GS "the other Jeep"
1972 Triumph TR6R "Bettie"
http://www.cardomain.com/id/pinecone59

Well there's my in between person

_________________
08 KK OEM skid plates, JK winch bumper w/ Hella 500s, K&N filter, JKS front discos, black out headlights w/ fogs added, blacked out & euro mod tail lights, Curt Hitch w/ oem wiring, OME Springs, JBA UCA & top plates, Cabin Filter Retro Fit, Custom Fender Mounted Light Mounts w/ Hella 500s, ATH roof bars, rear flush mount LEDs

But you like bikes also.

So do I.

Welcome to the forum.

_________________
06 Sport
05 BMW R1200GS "the other Jeep"
1972 Triumph TR6R "Bettie"
http://www.cardomain.com/id/pinecone59

The views stated are, of course, my opinions. My bias is toward well assembled vehicles that utilize high-quality components inside, outside and under the hood (not necessarily luxury, but well-built). My driving preferences bias is toward cars and trucks that offer the driver the greatest control and feedback without undue harshness.

The basis for my comparative opinions on how the KK and Trailblazer drive is informed by the numerous cars and trucks I have test driven. In addition to living with and 4-wheeling my ’05 Liberty, over the last year or so I have tested the following vehicles in the SUV and CUV segment:
• 2007 Volvo XC90 (on and off-road test – unpublished)
• 2007 Toyota RAV4 V6
• 2007 Jeep Compass
• 2007 Acura RDX
• 2007 Honda CR-V
• 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser (off-road only)
• 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (an '06 Unlimited also tested for comparison)
• 2007 Dodge Nitro
• 2007 Saab 9-7x
• 2007 Chevrolet Trailblazer (test review not published – tested for comparison to the Saab 9-7x)
• 2007 Acura MDX
• 2007 Nissan Murano
• 2007 Jeep Patriot
• 2007 Toyota 4Runner
• 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD
• 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (test review not published – tested for comparison to the Overland CRD)
• 2008 Jeep Liberty
• 2008 Mazda CX-9 (publication pending, an '07 CX-9 also tested for comparison)
• 2008 Kia Sorento (publication pending)

Of these, the vehicles that offer the greatest control and driver feedback are the sporty CUVs from Acura and the Saab 9-7x. The RDX is an especially fun corner carver. Of course, only a fool would consider these road-warriors for serious mud pluggin’ -n- rock crawlin’. For a rig well suited for dual duty, top honors (IMO) go to the 4Runner followed closely by the Grand Cherokee Laredo. Next, I rank the Wrangler Unlimited, which handles amazingly well on-road given its exceptional off-road capabilities.

The worst handling vehicle is hands down the Trailblazer due to the isolating effects of its over-boosted steering and brakes, and loose-as-a-Vegas-showgirl suspension. While the marshmallow suspension delivers a cushy ride over rough surfaces, the uncontrolled dynamics cause the Trailblazer to flip, flop, roll and lean through corners. The rig dives faster than Greg Louganis when braking and rebounds with a vengeance after sharp steering maneuvers. I though it would roll when I hit a bump while braking on a descending cloverleaf (yes, I was driving faster than most sane people would – but the suspension completely lost composure and the rig pitched alarmingly forward-left).

As stated, I find the suspension of Liberty/Nitro and Grand Cherokee Overland CRD to be nearly as sloppy.

_________________
William C Montgomery
The Truth About Cars
The Truth About Guns
'05 Sport 4X4, 3.7L - Black | Frankenlift II Premium, JBA KJ Lifted A-Arms 4.5 | Cooper Discoverer A/T3 - LT245/75R16, Load C

"The views stated are, of course, my opinions. My bias is toward well assembled vehicles that utilize high-quality components inside, outside and under the hood (not necessarily luxury, but well-built). My driving preferences bias is toward cars and trucks that offer the driver the greatest control and feedback without undue harshness."

If, in your highly esteemed (at least, by you) opinion, the Jeep Liberty is something less than a "well assembled vehicle that utilizes high-quality componenents", yada-yada-ad-nauseum, why do you find it neccesary to continue to visit this forum and express your negativity? In case it escaped your attention, the vast majority of us like our Libertys. What is your objective, other than just drawing attention to yourself and your publication?

Funny how you find the "Saab" to be the best and the Trailblazer to be the worst.

My critique is not about being pro-Saab or anti-GM, if that’s what you are thinking – by that logic I’d be pro Jeep and anti Jeep because I count the Grand Cherokee Laredo among the best and the Overland CRD among the worst – it’s about evaluating the suspension tuning. The Saab is excellent and the base Chevy TB is overly soft.

By the same token, the high-performance Trailblazer SS is said to be extremely tight and harsh. From the same platform, GM delivers three distinctly different ride and handling experiences. It's like Goldilocks and the three bears.

_________________
William C Montgomery
The Truth About Cars
The Truth About Guns
'05 Sport 4X4, 3.7L - Black | Frankenlift II Premium, JBA KJ Lifted A-Arms 4.5 | Cooper Discoverer A/T3 - LT245/75R16, Load C

It's all in the tuning... "The devil is in the details"

_________________
02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

I think I'd take your 'professional' opinion more seriously if you could describe it in non-made up words. Well that and if you actually knew how to test a car, of course.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Seems that folks forget that blackdog drives a liberty himself? Im pretty sure he wouldnt keep it if he didnt like it. I think he calls it as he sees it, is entitled to his own opinion, and everyone should take it for what it cost them.

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It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox

Obviously you can tune a suspension to different levels of comfort/performance. You can not; however, turn a pig into a princess. There is, in my opinion, no way you can transform a trailblazer into the best handling vehicle in the class with simple suspension tuning.