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esp is evel...i was going around a corner today (to pass an old lady)...dumoed the clutch form first at 5500 rpm in to second, broke rear end loose, started to counter steer and then, the esp kicked in and shut the throttle off on me..it sucked, the few seconds the car was off so to speak, seemed like for ever...at least you can shut off esp
my rant for the day

get used to driving with all the electronic doo-dads, come 2011 the NHTSA and IIHS will mandate the use of stability systems in vehicles. i could be wrong, the 2011 deadline was talked about being moved to 2009...

As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. :wink:

omg i couldnt live without my ABS! every single car ive owned or will own MUST HAVE ABS! the electronic brake assist is great too!!

ryno wrote:

As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. :wink:

You are right,there is nothing better then doing a 4 wheel drift on a road with undriven snow cover(4hi and rear ARB locked with the front TT locked)

!My personal record is about a 1/4 mile drift,though cops don't like it,MP's really hate it :evil:

tjkj2002 wrote:

ryno wrote:

As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. :wink:

You are right,there is nothing better then doing a 4 wheel drift on a road with undriven snow cover(4hi and rear ARB locked with the front TT locked)

!My personal record is about a 1/4 mile drift,though cops don't like it,MP's really hate it :evil:

1/4 mile?! I've seen a Corvette drift all the way around a wet circular on-ramp, but a Jeep drifting a quarter mile would be something to behold!

One time I did a 270 on a wet road (on accident). I gave it a little too much gas for the conditions and about swung my rear end into a tree. :shock:

That was on stock Goodyear Eagles. Those things are great for drifting, terrible for everything else. lol

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:	evel esp!!!!!
esp is evel...i was going around a corner today (to pass an old lady)...dumoed the clutch form first at 5500 rpm in to second, broke rear end loose, started to counter steer and then, the esp kicked in and shut the throttle off on me..it sucked, the few seconds the car was off so to speak, seemed like for ever...at least you can shut off esp my rant for the day

Author:	tommudd [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Good thing is yes you can shut it off I think I would run it that way all the time!

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:
like i said, it really took the fun out of the power slide..

Author:	Jeger [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:32 am ]
Post subject:
I see u are doing the full throttle break in method?

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:55 am ]
Post subject:
just some of the time

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Author:	KJ4ME [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:
o just you wait! you havent seen the ugliest side of esp yet. i was on a muddy trail just a cruisin along, all of a sudden i hear the mechanical buzz of the ESP,the steering wheel jerked itself one way and then the rear end slid around... and this was all out of nowhere in 4HI

Author:	ryno [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Is there a way to completely disable ESP? There's something magical about man and machine working harmoniously without all these electronic nannies.

Author:	KJ4ME [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:
theres a button on the steering column that disables a portion of the TCS and ESP, basically it puts it into a less aggressive mode that allows for more wheel spin for snow/mud, putting the vehicle in 4LO does the same thing in addition to putting the ABS in a different mode too. so its never really off, just lower profile. the only way to really turn it off is to pull the fuse for the system, but you'd also take out your ABS system and the warning lights for both systems would be on constantly as you drive...

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: evel esp!!!!!
Diggerfreek wrote: esp is evel...i was going around a corner today (to pass an old lady)...dumoed the clutch form first at 5500 rpm in to second, broke rear end loose, started to counter steer and then, the esp kicked in and shut the throttle off on me..it sucked, the few seconds the car was off so to speak, seemed like for ever...at least you can shut off esp my rant for the day At least I'm not the only one that thinks ESP is the devil !!!!!!!(so glad I don't have it)

Author:	KJ4ME [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:
get used to driving with all the electronic doo-dads, come 2011 the NHTSA and IIHS will mandate the use of stability systems in vehicles. i could be wrong, the 2011 deadline was talked about being moved to 2009...

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:
KJ4ME wrote: get used to driving with all the electronic doo-dads, come 2011 the NHTSA and IIHS will mandate the use of stability systems in vehicles. i could be wrong, the 2011 deadline was talked about being moved to 2009... Glad I have a '02 !!!!!! Oh and I don't have ABS either(the other devil).

Author:	ryno [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:
As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:
ryno wrote: As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. You are right,there is nothing better then doing a 4 wheel drift on a road with undriven snow cover(4hi and rear ARB locked with the front TT locked) !My personal record is about a 1/4 mile drift,though cops don't like it,MP's really hate it .

Author:	tommudd [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:
1/4 mile drift ...wow now thats fun! Its funny discussing this on here since my boss and I were discussing the same thing today at work. He used to own Jeeps but went with a Prius and was telling me about last winter and being stuck on ice and snow 2 or 3 different times and couldnt move because everytime it started to spin it (the Prius) would shut off basically like the Libertys do. He is now searching for another Jeep for winter time driving. Saving lots of money isnt he? Another funny thing was every time it was a Jeep owner who came and gave him a shove to help him out!

Author:	KJ4ME [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:
o yea, i know how it works and how it was designed to be used and i use it as such. in a crowded city like baltimore, where i learned to drive, abs was great to have to be able to maintain steering control over the vehicle if some idiot jumped in your lane without warning in a rainstorm. here in colorado where snow is the biggest thing, i dont go over 30MPH in snow anyway, or on city streets that are or look icy so i can really take advantage of the ABS system. which reminds me i need to wire up that rear foglight rather quickly!

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Author:	KJ4ME [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:
omg i couldnt live without my ABS! every single car ive owned or will own MUST HAVE ABS! the electronic brake assist is great too!!

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:
KJ4ME wrote: omg i couldnt live without my ABS! every single car ive owned or will own MUST HAVE ABS! the electronic brake assist is great too!! I will have to disagree with you there,I'm perfectly able to pump my own brakes.Did you know that ABS actually lenthens the distance it takes you to stop? I can stop quicker then a ABS equipted vehicle on ice and without hardly using my brakes,grew up on ice/snow and learned real fast how to stop on it without ABS and using the brakes almost all together.

Author:	ryno [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:
tjkj2002 wrote: ryno wrote: As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. You are right,there is nothing better then doing a 4 wheel drift on a road with undriven snow cover(4hi and rear ARB locked with the front TT locked) !My personal record is about a 1/4 mile drift,though cops don't like it,MP's really hate it . 1/4 mile?! I've seen a Corvette drift all the way around a wet circular on-ramp, but a Jeep drifting a quarter mile would be something to behold! One time I did a 270 on a wet road (on accident). I gave it a little too much gas for the conditions and about swung my rear end into a tree. That was on stock Goodyear Eagles. Those things are great for drifting, terrible for everything else. lol

Author:	_UnLiMiTeD_ [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:
no esp or abs for me and love it

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:
ryno wrote: tjkj2002 wrote: ryno wrote: As much fun as I have off-road, I think I have equally as much fun on-road, e.g., drifting around corners, donuts in the snow, etc. I'm glad I don't have all the electronic glut either. You are right,there is nothing better then doing a 4 wheel drift on a road with undriven snow cover(4hi and rear ARB locked with the front TT locked) !My personal record is about a 1/4 mile drift,though cops don't like it,MP's really hate it . 1/4 mile?! I've seen a Corvette drift all the way around a wet circular on-ramp, but a Jeep drifting a quarter mile would be something to behold! One time I did a 270 on a wet road (on accident). I gave it a little too much gas for the conditions and about swung my rear end into a tree. That was on stock Goodyear Eagles. Those things are great for drifting, terrible for everything else. lol It's sometimes hard to get the takeoff right but when in the groove it's pretty easy to keep it sideway's with the throttle,oh and it's going in a strait line(cocked at a 45 degree angle) on a strait stretch of road.