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good try, but the AC compressor is the same from 2002 to 2008, and I really doubt the condensor coils are smaller.

now that just didn't make any sense at all. So you're pretty sure that the system capacity is larger on the KJ, and I'm assuming you are saying that because it uses more freon?

Diggerfreek wrote:

ok guys, play nice

It's just so fustrating when someone just doesn't understand that 1.68lbs is more then 1.12lbs.I get it but some poeple just can't grasp the concept :roll:

Just curious. If the problem appears to affect all Jeeps between a certain period, why not make this a recall issue? Is it because they figure there are some who just will put up with lousy A/C? I'm also curious by those who don't seem to have a problem - are they all really owners of KKs made after this problem was corrected at the factory?

My KK was made Oct 31/07 ( :twisted:

) so it's definitely in the period covered by this TSB, and yet we're mostly satisfied with the performance of our A/C. But if we can get better performance should I automatically take it in to get it "fixed"?

I guess maybe I would at least be able to get my reverse tilt mirrors turned on while they have the Star Scan attached...

I'm guessing that a lot of folks will be satisfied with their AC system. I'm thinking that maybe if you live in Aurora, CO, or Winnipeg, Canada that you may not notice it so bad, because of milder summer temperatures

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:15 am ]
Post subject:	AC TSB
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=368470#368470

Author:	rickm [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks for posting this. I printed out the TSB and took it to the dealer today. My vehicle was built in early August of 2007, I think he said it was on the 6th of August. It falls under the category of needing both the computer flash and the freon evacuation and change. However, my dealer is giving me some grief about changing the freon level, and he may be correct. I also had the rattle when the AC was turned on. When I first took it to the dealer, they thought it was the AC compressor and replaced it. He says that according to the records, when they changed it, they put in 1.12 lbs of freon, which is very close to 18 ounces. After they replaced the compressor, it was still rattling, and they found the TSB and replaced the belt, which solved the problem. So according to him, my vehicle has the correct amount of freon, it just needs the computer update. I have an appointment to have that done on Monday.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:
No wonder why the KK's A/C is not on par,it's to small of a system for the vehicle size.Heck my KJ's,with less interior room,A/C system requires 1.68lbs of R134A.

Author:	rickm [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:
good try, but the AC compressor is the same from 2002 to 2008, and I really doubt the condensor coils are smaller.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:
rickm wrote: good try, but the AC compressor is the same from 2002 to 2008, and I really doubt the condensor coils are smaller. It may be the same compressor but the system capicity is larger for a KJ then a KK and the KK has more interior room then a KJ,hence the A/C system is smaller for a KK then a KJ.It has nothing to do with the condensor coils.

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AC TSB http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35262	Page 1 of 2

Author:	rickm [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:
now that just didn't make any sense at all. So you're pretty sure that the system capacity is larger on the KJ, and I'm assuming you are saying that because it uses more freon? I mean the compressor is the same compressor, and I'm pretty sure you'll find the condensor coils at least as large or larger on the KK. But then you say "the KK has more interior room then a KJ,hence the A/C system is smaller for a KK then a KJ" That really doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Chrysler put a smaller AC unit on the KK because it has more interior room than the KJ? If you read what others have posted, apparently the TSB fix makes a drastic improvement to the AC output. Also, if you read what others have posted here, the major complaint is the air coming out of the AC vent doesn't appear to be cold enough. There's plenty of air, just not cold air. All that doesn't necessarily mean that the KK AC unit is undersized.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: now that just didn't make any sense at all. So you're pretty sure that the system capacity is larger on the KJ, and I'm assuming you are saying that because it uses more freon? I know that the capicity is larger for a KJ then a KK,1.12lbs(18oz) of R134A for the KK is less then the 1.68lbs of R134A that the KJ holds.The compressor is not the only component in the A/C system. Oh and by the way the KJ and the KK do not use Freon,Freon is R12 and has been banned from automotive use for some time.The correct term is R134A,not Freon.

Author:	rickm [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:48 am ]
Post subject:
yes, I know that "Freon" is no longer used, I was using it as a generic term for the "refrigerant" that is part of the Liberty air conditioning system. If you want to get picky, it's "capacity" and not "capicity" as you stated. Just because the earlier Jeep liberty models use a bit more "refrigerant" than the new model does not mean the capacity of the air conditioning system is larger. I happen to have owned both vehicles, a 2004 and a 2008 Liberty. While I didn't specifically take any measurements of cubic feet per minute of air moved into the vehicle cabin on either vehicle, nor did I take any temperature readings of the air coming out of the ducts on either vehicle, I can tell you that both vehicles blow a lot of cold air into the vehicle cabin. While others have complained about the air not being cold enough, my only complaint would be that it doesn't get cold as fast as my KJ. However, after driving for a bit, it gets plenty cold to cool the cabin of the vehicle, both front and rear seats. And I should tell you that I live in an area where summer temperatures above 100 degrees are often the norm. Since the compressor is the same in both vehicles, and the condensor coils are most likely the same, or larger in the KK, please tell me what makes the KJ air conditioner unit have a larger "capacity"? It's certainly not the amount of "refrigerant" that you put into the system. I bet that I could shove 1.86 pounds of "refrigerant" into the KK, but that wouldn't make it work any better. And I'm familiar with the other AC components, the condensor, the evaporator, the expansion valve, the blower fan. Which one of those makes the KJ have a larger cooling capacity? I can assure you that both vehicles blow a lot of cold air into the vehicle cabin.

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:12 am ]
Post subject:
ok guys, play nice

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Diggerfreek wrote: ok guys, play nice It's just so fustrating when someone just doesn't understand that 1.68lbs is more then 1.12lbs.I get it but some poeple just can't grasp the concept .

Author:	Limitedguy [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:18 am ]
Post subject:
I had the AC fix done at the dealer the other day. I definitely notice an improvement in the A/C since having it done. The A/C was kinda crummy before, I didn't really notice it till I read the TSB on another site and thought to myself, gee mine seems to do that.

Author:	rickm [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:
I had the TSB on the AC unit done today also. It is greatly improved, lower capacity and all It's about 97 here today and I was driving around with the AC fan on speed 2. The AC seems to get colder faster and seems to be colder air coming out of the vents. I think it's good to go now.

Author:	rickm [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:
tjkj2002 wrote: Diggerfreek wrote: ok guys, play nice It's just so fustrating when someone just doesn't understand that 1.68lbs is more then 1.12lbs.I get it but some poeple just can't grasp the concept . I do understand that 1.68 lbs is a greater number than 1.12 lbs. After having the TSB done today on my KK, I would say the AC is blowing air that is just as cold, if not colder than my KJ. The AC works fine now.

Author:	Gimme Liberty [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:
Just curious. If the problem appears to affect all Jeeps between a certain period, why not make this a recall issue? Is it because they figure there are some who just will put up with lousy A/C? I'm also curious by those who don't seem to have a problem - are they all really owners of KKs made after this problem was corrected at the factory? My KK was made Oct 31/07 ( ) so it's definitely in the period covered by this TSB, and yet we're mostly satisfied with the performance of our A/C. But if we can get better performance should I automatically take it in to get it "fixed"? I guess maybe I would at least be able to get my reverse tilt mirrors turned on while they have the Star Scan attached...

Author:	E2 [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:
this sucks and is great news! my jeep was built on 4/08. I bought it on the 17th. when it test drove it I went on the freeway up the grapevine, a large hill that car overheat on, I had the ac on high and when I floored it the ac cut off the sale guy stated that was normal as a saftey feature so as the engine needed the power and so the ac would not break. I also got to take it offroad up a 33 percent hill, shown as my profile pic. when I gave it gas to go up in low 4 the ac cut out again some. glad this will be fixed!

Author:	Diggerfreek [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:
safety feature.. nice... I just love those sales men

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Author:	Diggerfreek [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Gimme Liberty wrote: Just curious. If the problem appears to affect all Jeeps between a certain period, why not make this a recall issue? Is it because they figure there are some who just will put up with lousy A/C? I'm also curious by those who don't seem to have a problem - are they all really owners of KKs made after this problem was corrected at the factory? My KK was made Oct 31/07 ( ) so it's definitely in the period covered by this TSB, and yet we're mostly satisfied with the performance of our A/C. But if we can get better performance should I automatically take it in to get it "fixed"? I guess maybe I would at least be able to get my reverse tilt mirrors turned on while they have the Star Scan attached... yeah, it would save some time.... It's just hard for me to see how a .08 difference in charge is going to make a difference. It just doesn't seem like enough to make a difference. On the other hand, i would like to see if the reprogram fixes my heater... I swear that it leaks heat even when the system is off..

Author:	rickm [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:28 am ]
Post subject:
I'm guessing that a lot of folks will be satisfied with their AC system. I'm thinking that maybe if you live in Aurora, CO, or Winnipeg, Canada that you may not notice it so bad, because of milder summer temperatures However, if you live here in Central California where daytime temps are well above 100 degrees for days at a time, you may think that it would be nice if that AC unit would get cold a little faster. That was my only complaint with it, it just took a bit of time to get cold air out the vents. It seems to be doing much better at that now, after the TSB. When you get in that thing after it's been sitting in the sun at 112 degrees, you want cold air NOW

Author:	DnvrJeepGuy [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:
rickm wrote: I'm guessing that a lot of folks will be satisfied with their AC system. I'm thinking that maybe if you live in Aurora, CO, or Winnipeg, Canada that you may not notice it so bad, because of milder summer temperatures I assure you, living in Denver, CO myself, it's been anything but mild this summer. Definitely been working the A/C a lot here this year.

Author:	E2 [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Empty & Recharge?
I can understand the flashing on the computer to update the software so the points when the compressor turn on to keep the cold air coming thru, but why drain and recharge. If the system was low on 134a then why not just top it off? If the system has air in it then why not hook it up to pull the air out and then top it off with the 134a. This would make sense why the system was not as cool as it could be. Well I guess it is better just to start all over for them! I was going to bring this up as an issue but so far in this 95 degree weather it is working fine but no hills around here that would make the engine or ac work harder.