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CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=69885		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
Hello everybody,

Might be that you discussed this on here, but I didn't find the link. And since the matter about lift kits is a never ending story, I felt free to start a new tread on this.

I am quite new here and the moment I am still driving my modified Patriot which does OK but...., I just recently put it on sale as I want to start my KK proyect (which they call here in Europe the "CHEROKEE").

Since I have to sale first my present rig, I am using the time to define the modifications which I want to go for with the KK (at least on paper, for the moment). I saw that some guys out here, made some impressive modifications to their KK's. I understand that almost everbody made its own experience with lift kits and me as a newbie, I woud appreciate very much, if you would share this experience and give me your opinion on this tread.

After going thru all the options I saw, I am thinking to go with 4" or otpional with a non standard 3" lift of JBA. To lift the rear diff housing also some what, I would like to use some 265/75/16 or 265/70/17 tires (I understud it fits in the spare tire compartment).

It is clear that lifting the car will have some disadvantages like stability, consumtion etc. but the real reason why I am considering to use a 3" lift instead of a 4" lift is more a concern of:
- lifetime problems of CV joints
- lifetime problems of CV boots
- reduction of sideway tilting angle (when driving dificult off road sections)

Now it's up to you guys. What is your experience about the CV joints/boots and other problems, which I may find with the 4" lift, besides of spending a lot of money!!! What would your concerns be!

"E2", I saw the asome Foto documentation of your KK (Very recomendable!!!), but I also saw the pictures of the problems you had. Please let me know your opinion, I am sure you (together with Diggerfreak) are one who made a lot of experience with that kit.

Also "Booblemouche", why did you stay on a 3" lift and didn't go up to 4"? Any serious concerns for the 4" lift???

Please give me a hand on this. What I am looking for is to have a trouble free, off road capable KK in a very near futur!


Thanx for help
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
Any amount of lift will reduce CV axle life,rear u-joint life,ball joint life,and tie rod end life.No way around this unless you drop the cradle the same amount as lifting,which alsdo defeats the whole lifting and is a nightmare to do as everything has to be dropped and extended.
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
Sorry I am not able to put a Atavar in my account. Let me present myself, for the moment by this...

Just have look at:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1054456006 ... eepThingD#
or:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Panic853/videos
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
you are right TJKJ, any lift will affect the liftime... but how much.

will I have all so often to replace the components with 4"? According to what I heard from a guy in Australia (http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/kk-cherokee.php) a 3" lift should be quite reliable.
Author:  DirtyKK [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
I wish I stuck with 2.5" lift and 245/75/16 tires. I've had CV and power steering problems. I know at least two other people and to replace power steering racks. I made a 265/75/16 tire fit in the stock spare location but it is deflated (I have on board air) and it is really wedged in there. I don't even think it flexes much more if at all with the taller lift and tires because the amount of bump stops I had to add to keep the tires from eating fenders and the drive shaft from smacking the gas tank skid plate.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The_hiker wrote:
you are right TJKJ, any lift will affect the liftime... but how much.

will I have all so often to replace the components with 4"? According to what I heard from a guy in Australia (http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/kk-cherokee.php) a 3" lift should be quite reliable.

Not based off of anything with real proof but over the years working in the automotive feild and personal experiance expect to loose I'd say about 15%-20% life for every inch you go up without correcting the angles like ball joints,tie rod ends,u-joints,and CV joints.

Over on Pirate they have a graph in the tech section from Spicer that shows how fast u-joints degrade at more exteme angles.
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
DirtyKK wrote:
I wish I stuck with 2.5" lift and 245/75/16 tires. I've had CV and power steering problems. I know at least two other people and to replace power steering racks. I made a 265/75/16 tire fit in the stock spare location but it is deflated (I have on board air) and it is really wedged in there. I don't even think it flexes much more if at all with the taller lift and tires because the amount of bump stops I had to add to keep the tires from eating fenders and the drive shaft from smacking the gas tank skid plate.



Thanks for your post Dirty KK.
That doesn't sound very good :? What do you think? Where the problems you had, morelikely caused by the tire size or by the lift? Which rims did you use and did you use offset plates??? I can't understand that the spare didn't fit underneeth the body => again: could it be that you used rim which was rather narrow and you had at the end more outside diameter than others. Or said it different did the others (E2 and the customers of Murchison in Australia) use wider rims and had less outside diameter??? What do you think....
Author:  DirtyKK [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The lift is causing the problems. Of course the larger tires aren't going to fit without much lift also. I have 16x8 TJ Moabs for rims. Idk what the other are running. When my tires wear down more ill be going to 245/75/16 on the same rims and going to an OME lift. I haven't off roaded the KK in over a year. I bought an XJ to wheel because of the problems with wheeling the KK and it's not a very capable platform. There are much better, cheaper alternatives. If you can only have one vehicle you can make due, just know the limits.
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
tjkj2002 wrote:
The_hiker wrote:
you are right TJKJ, any lift will affect the liftime... but how much.

will I have all so often to replace the components with 4"? According to what I heard from a guy in Australia (http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/kk-cherokee.php) a 3" lift should be quite reliable.

Not based off of anything with real proof but over the years working in the automotive feild and personal experiance expect to loose I'd say about 15%-20% life for every inch you go up without correcting the angles like ball joints,tie rod ends,u-joints,and CV joints.

Over on Pirate they have a graph in the tech section from Spicer that shows how fast u-joints degrade at more exteme angles.



Uhhhhh that's a tough way of thinking:
Let's say that the parts were designed for a life tieme of 100'000km (62'136miles)
=> In case of a a 4" lift, this would give a worst case of approx.: -80% which are 20'000km/12'500miles; one years milage
=> In case of a a 3" lift, this would give a worst case of approx.: -60% which are 40'000km/24'800miles; two years milage

Very intersting way of seeing things TJKJ. Let's see what the others think...

Thanks so far
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
DirtyKK wrote:
The lift is causing the problems. Of course the larger tires aren't going to fit without much lift also. I have 16x8 TJ Moabs for rims. Idk what the other are running. When my tires wear down more ill be going to 245/75/16 on the same rims and going to an OME lift. I haven't off roaded the KK in over a year. I bought an XJ to wheel because of the problems with wheeling the KK and it's not a very capable platform. There are much better, cheaper alternatives. If you can only have one vehicle you can make due, just know the limits.


Got your point Dirty KK!
I have a little girl and two bikes already => I can't have two cars besides that!!!
Originally I thought to go with a JKU, but you know... when familiy gets into your buisness you start to think about ride comfort, security etc. What I am looking for is to have an every day car which I can take to some intersting off road trips.
I like technically complicated sections rather just trails but we live in Europe so you can't get too crazy. Basicly I would say that what ever car I d'buy I would use it approx some 85% on freeways.

By the way to all:
Have a look what our friends down under are doing with the KK's...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ70piV5 ... re=mh_lolz
Author:  cgass [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
tjkj2002 wrote:

Over on Pirate they have a graph in the tech section from Spicer that shows how fast u-joints degrade at more exteme angles.

Troy, do you have a link to that chart, I can't find it.
Author:  tommudd [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The_hiker wrote:
DirtyKK wrote:
The lift is causing the problems. Of course the larger tires aren't going to fit without much lift also. I have 16x8 TJ Moabs for rims. Idk what the other are running. When my tires wear down more ill be going to 245/75/16 on the same rims and going to an OME lift. I haven't off roaded the KK in over a year. I bought an XJ to wheel because of the problems with wheeling the KK and it's not a very capable platform. There are much better, cheaper alternatives. If you can only have one vehicle you can make due, just know the limits.


Got your point Dirty KK!
I have a little girl and two bikes already => I can't have two cars besides that!!!
Originally I thought to go with a JKU, but you know... when familiy gets into your buisness you start to think about ride comfort, security etc. What I am looking for is to have an every day car which I can take to some intersting off road trips.
I like technically complicated sections rather just trails but we live in Europe so you can't get too crazy. Basicly I would say that what ever car I d'buy I would use it approx some 85% on freeways.

By the way to all:
Have a look what our friends down under are doing with the KK's...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ70piV5 ... re=mh_lolz


Looks pretty normal with what they are doing
2-3 inches of lift 245-75s and skids you're good to go on trails like that
Just wheeled with a KK two weeks ago on similar trails
Author:  cgass [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
I've done very similar trails with just an OME lift (I got about 2.5") and no skids (I know, I'm taking a chance there). I have stock size tires too, but the DuraTracs are a huge improvement over the stock tires. If you're going to keep it on pavement most of the time and run trails like that, the OME route might be worth considering :2cents:
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
cgass wrote:
I've done very similar trails with just an OME lift (I got about 2.5") and no skids (I know, I'm taking a chance there). I have stock size tires too, but the DuraTracs are a huge improvement over the stock tires. If you're going to keep it on pavement most of the time and run trails like that, the OME route might be worth considering :2cents:


Hey Cgass,
Why doesn't anybody put some KK off road videos on YOUTUBE??? I would love to see this car working!!!
I am trying to figure out which OME kit you are refering to. Where did you get it??? Rocky Road...autch, this hurt!!! I know most guys doesn't like to hear their guys name. But I really can't figure out an other source...
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
cgass wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:

Over on Pirate they have a graph in the tech section from Spicer that shows how fast u-joints degrade at more exteme angles.

Troy, do you have a link to that chart, I can't find it.

Image
Author:  tommudd [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The_hiker wrote:
cgass wrote:
I've done very similar trails with just an OME lift (I got about 2.5") and no skids (I know, I'm taking a chance there). I have stock size tires too, but the DuraTracs are a huge improvement over the stock tires. If you're going to keep it on pavement most of the time and run trails like that, the OME route might be worth considering :2cents:


Hey Cgass,
Why doesn't anybody put some KK off road videos on YOUTUBE??? I would love to see this car working!!!
I am trying to figure out which OME kit you are refering to. Where did you get it??? Rocky Road...autch, this hurt!!! I know most guys doesn't like to hear their guys name. But I really can't figure out an other source...


If you read through the 1000s of posts you'll see JeepinByAl and AllJs mentioned several times
Very easy to go to JBAs site and look under OME
Plus hundreds of other places sell OME
These two give great service
Just don't mention RRO again

and "car" :shock: :banghead:
Author:  The_hiker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
Well, I saw that too late Tommudd.... I gues I could get them by JBA no problem...

Sorry I hurt your guys feelings ;-))
Author:  tommudd [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The_hiker wrote:
Well, I saw that too late Tommudd.... I gues I could get them by JBA no problem...

Sorry I hurt your guys feelings ;-))


:ROTFL:
Just messing with the new guy
and since you are from Spain! :-)r
Author:  cgass [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
I've got one of my KK. I've got a lot of pics, but not a lot of videos sadly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulO5coszPGw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That's one of the more tame places, next time I go out I'll make the girlfriend tape it ;-)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Author:  Mikzor [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint and CV boot problems on KK 3" or 4"
The_hiker wrote:
By the way to all:
Have a look what our friends down under are doing with the KK's...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ70piV5 ... re=mh_lolz


Hey mate, that's actually my car in the video you linked. Just thought I'd let you know that I'm just running the Mopar 2" lift and only have a set of 245/70/R16 tyres on some 16x8 AEV Rims at the moment. I've been impressed with what she can do even with that modest setup. I'll probably increase the tyres next purchase to either a set of 245/75/16's or splash out and go for some 265/75/16s and a ReGearing to run them but that would be as far as I'll ever take it for height.

I'm like you, in this is my daily work driver and with a young family I'm really just setting it up as a nice camping tourer that's still capable enough to have a bit of fun with the boys now and then.
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