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Tire Comparison/ Lift Discussion
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=79272		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dewphy [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Tire Comparison/ Lift Discussion
Hi all!

Part 1:
I've been trying to get answers regarding how 255/70R16s fit on a stock kk but havent had luck. I currently have the stock 235/70R16s sitting at (i think, need to double check) 17.5" in the front and 18.5" in the rear (stock). I would really like 235/75R16s but that extremely limits my tire options it appears. So, will the 255/70R16s fit on stock wheels? Other size suggestions?

Part2:
I do plan on ordering the 1/4" top plates, 3/8" clevis spacers, and rear spring isolators from JBA. This should put me at 18.75" up front and 19" in the rear. Would I need to do this before going to the Ø30.1 tire (255/70R16), or can I add these parts after?

Notes:
The KK is my daily driver (the wife drives it quite a bit as well) and rarely offroad BUT, being in Michigan, I deal with some pretty decent winters and have to drive on some narly street and dirt roads.

Thanks in advance! Really appreciate it!
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
245-70-16 is most times the next step up from stock and then some rubbing may occur.
You have sagged 1/2 inch at least below new stock height so the 1/4 inch top plate is only getting you back to original height .
I would say 245-70-16s are the best bet for you, 255-70-16s would be pushing it even adding in the items you listed.
Best bet is to look into upgrading the suspension soon , no matter if you never go off road. The upgrade will make it ride so much better and handle better on road
Author:  Bmxer524 [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
First, your math is off on the front. Everything you add to the front you have to double. So you add 1/4" top plate, you get 1/2" of lift, add 3/8" clevis, you get 3/4" of lift. Every iso you add in the rear you get 1/2" of lift.

As Tom said, you've sagged about 1/2" since you were new. So if you add both you'll have the rear at new stock height, and the front about 3/4" higher than new stock. It should sit pretty level if that's what you like.

Honestly, if you want to fit those tires, I recommend upgrading the suspension and getting a full lift kit. OME springs(927 front, 731 rear) that'll get about 2.5" of lift. If you want to save some money(since it will cost more than what you're planning) you can run Bilstein shocks and still have quality. At that point you can go to the more common 245/75-16 size, which will have a ton of options, be slightly skinnier, but be a tad taller. All in all OME + Bilstein should come out to about $700, might be a bit more since I believe prices have changed for OME. Oh and to answer your other question, yes 255/70-16 will fit on stock 16" rims.

Now if you don't want to do the whole lift kit and want to level + return to new-stock height, I'd say go with 245/70-16. They're closer to the stock sized tires, and still a fairly common size.
Author:  Dewphy [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
tommudd wrote:
245-70-16 is most times the next step up from stock and then some rubbing may occur.
You have sagged 1/2 inch at least below new stock height so the 1/4 inch top plate is only getting you back to original height .
I would say 245-70-16s are the best bet for you, 255-70-16s would be pushing it even adding in the items you listed.
Best bet is to look into upgrading the suspension soon , no matter if you never go off road. The upgrade will make it ride so much better and handle better on road


Thank you tommudd for your input! I wish new tires werent more of a priority than new suspension parts (the owner before me apparently didnt know that you are allowed to rotate the tires...). Regardless, when you say "upgrade the suspension", what do you suggest if I am not looking for much more lift than what the parts i listed will give me?
Im thinking new oem parts, plus top plate/ clevis/ isos, would put me around 19.25" in front and 19.5" in the rear. Right?
Or would Ironman 1.5" springs up front and new oem rear springs with isos putting me at 19.5" all around be a better and more cost effective approach?
FYI, no extra weight (such as bumpers) or even a hitch are in the plans anytime soon.

I know im asking a lot of questions but i really appreciate the feedback!
Author:  Dewphy [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Bmxer524 wrote:
First, your math is off on the front. Everything you add to the front you have to double. So you add 1/4" top plate, you get 1/2" of lift, add 3/8" clevis, you get 3/4" of lift. Every iso you add in the rear you get 1/2" of lift.

As Tom said, you've sagged about 1/2" since you were new. So if you add both you'll have the rear at new stock height, and the front about 3/4" higher than new stock. It should sit pretty level if that's what you like.

Honestly, if you want to fit those tires, I recommend upgrading the suspension and getting a full lift kit. OME springs(927 front, 731 rear) that'll get about 2.5" of lift. If you want to save some money(since it will cost more than what you're planning) you can run Bilstein shocks and still have quality. At that point you can go to the more common 245/75-16 size, which will have a ton of options, be slightly skinnier, but be a tad taller. All in all OME + Bilstein should come out to about $700, might be a bit more since I believe prices have changed for OME. Oh and to answer your other question, yes 255/70-16 will fit on stock 16" rims.

Now if you don't want to do the whole lift kit and want to level + return to new-stock height, I'd say go with 245/70-16. They're closer to the stock sized tires, and still a fairly common size.


Thank you Bmxer524 but how is my math off? if im sitting at 17.5" now and add 1.25" (.5 top plate + .75 3/8 clevis), i would be at 18.75" like i said...same with the rear, if im at 18.5" and add .5 (iso) i would be at 19" like i said..

I am looking to level it out as best i can but without going as far as 2.5" lift...sounds strange just saying it but im trying to keep in mind that the wife has to take our 16 month old in and out of the car seat, as well as budget of course. If getting the tires werent a priority i would definitely go the OME/ Bilstein route and tell the wife to deal with it haha

based our your guy's suggestions, it looks like i may go with 245/70/16s to keep it safe and enjoy the extra clearance i may get after upgrading the suspension or lifting.
Author:  Bmxer524 [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Dewphy wrote:
Bmxer524 wrote:
First, your math is off on the front. Everything you add to the front you have to double. So you add 1/4" top plate, you get 1/2" of lift, add 3/8" clevis, you get 3/4" of lift. Every iso you add in the rear you get 1/2" of lift.

As Tom said, you've sagged about 1/2" since you were new. So if you add both you'll have the rear at new stock height, and the front about 3/4" higher than new stock. It should sit pretty level if that's what you like.

Honestly, if you want to fit those tires, I recommend upgrading the suspension and getting a full lift kit. OME springs(927 front, 731 rear) that'll get about 2.5" of lift. If you want to save some money(since it will cost more than what you're planning) you can run Bilstein shocks and still have quality. At that point you can go to the more common 245/75-16 size, which will have a ton of options, be slightly skinnier, but be a tad taller. All in all OME + Bilstein should come out to about $700, might be a bit more since I believe prices have changed for OME. Oh and to answer your other question, yes 255/70-16 will fit on stock 16" rims.

Now if you don't want to do the whole lift kit and want to level + return to new-stock height, I'd say go with 245/70-16. They're closer to the stock sized tires, and still a fairly common size.


Thank you Bmxer524 but how is my math off? if im sitting at 17.5" now and add 1.25" (.5 top plate + .75 3/8 clevis), i would be at 18.75" like i said...same with the rear, if im at 18.5" and add .5 (iso) i would be at 19" like i said..

I am looking to level it out as best i can but without going as far as 2.5" lift...sounds strange just saying it but im trying to keep in mind that the wife has to take our 16 month old in and out of the car seat, as well as budget of course. If getting the tires werent a priority i would definitely go the OME/ Bilstein route and tell the wife to deal with it haha

based our your guy's suggestions, it looks like i may go with 245/70/16s to keep it safe and enjoy the extra clearance i may get after upgrading the suspension or lifting.


You're right, my math was off lmfao. My bad. You mentioned going with new OEM stuff to Tom? If I'm right that costs almost as much as the lift. Both Ironman and OME will net about 2.5"(OME being 2.5", Ironman being slightly less around 2.25").

Honestly, if you have the means and/or time, do like I did and put a jack under the front and jack it up until you get our measurements from the center of hub to the flare. 2.5" lift should net you to about 20.5" in front. See if the wife has trouble with that. That'll let you know what you can get away with as far as her means, she might not even have a problem.

Either way, you'll be safe with 245/70-16 whether you do a full lift or just the plate, clevis, and isos.
Author:  Dewphy [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Bmxer524 wrote:

You're right, my math was off lmfao. My bad. You mentioned going with new OEM stuff to Tom? If I'm right that costs almost as much as the lift. Both Ironman and OME will net about 2.5"(OME being 2.5", Ironman being slightly less around 2.25").

Honestly, if you have the means and/or time, do like I did and put a jack under the front and jack it up until you get our measurements from the center of hub to the flare. 2.5" lift should net you to about 20.5" in front. See if the wife has trouble with that. That'll let you know what you can get away with as far as her means, she might not even have a problem.

Either way, you'll be safe with 245/70-16 whether you do a full lift or just the plate, clevis, and isos.


:banghead: That's a genius idea. Definitely gonna find time to jack up the Jeep! I am going to price out different lift kits whether it be oem, OME, or Ironman and actually see the cost differences. Chances are I will end up with OME. I knew OMEs gave you a 2.5" lift, should have known the Ironman were the same, especially with them being in tommudds lift. Thanks again for the tip and suggestions!
Now back to the topic (somewhat) at hand, looks like I found the right tire size but not the right tire. Here is what I'm having a hard time choosing between:

1. Goodyear Duratracs
2. Hankook Dynapro ATm
3. Cooper Discoverer AT3
4. General Grabber AT2

I think they're all great tires but not sure which ones would hurt mpgs the least, stupid I know...
Author:  Bmxer524 [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Well from what some have said, Duratracs seem to destroy(for an A/T at least) most people's gas mileage. I forgot who it was that got them in stock size and lost about 2mpg. I lost a bit when I upgraded, but I also went up a few sizes(now run a 245/75-16 and if I see 15mpg on the highway I'm doing great...). Duratracs are also the most aggressive on your list.

I've heard great things about the Hankooks. I was going to get them, but decided I wanted something more aggressive and went with Duratracs. Never personally ran them.

I think the Coopers are pretty common on the forum. A lot of people seem to like them.

Don't really know much about the General Grabbers.

If you seek mileage, Duratracs are probably out. If you seek offroad performance, they might just be the best on the list.
Author:  crippled [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
I love my firestone destination a/t I see 18mpg a lot in a 245/75/16
Author:  tommudd [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Go Duratracs
Author:  12KK SFD [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
It was me who lost a couple MPGs in stock size. Don't get me wrong, I love the tires and would've liked to have kept them year-round. But in the summer, with my daily highway commute, it was more economical to put the stock tires back on.

My living situation may change in the next few months where I'll be save a bit of money per month in rent. If that happens, I'll flinch less at the pump and may throw them back on as I like them that much.
Author:  tommudd [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Never saw any loss with my Duratracs , what ply rating did you have , could have been way heavier due to 8-10 ply
Run mine year around, over 70,000 miles on them so far and still going
Author:  12KK SFD [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
That's the issue - they're E rated tires. A bit heavier than stock.
Author:  Dewphy [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Thanks some more for all the input! I knew the duratracs are the crowd favorite but wanted to see how much info I could get on them and compare. From what's been discussed and seen in this forum, it appears for the KK, that a lift nor any tread design really effect mpg's. I see the main factor being the added weight of being larger sized or higher rated. Does that seem correct? If so, lower rated Duratracs sound perfect!

Serious question, where the hell does everyone buy tires? Haha
I can't find anyone who has any of the sizes discussed in this thread...
Author:  Dewphy [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Alright, looks like I may just need to make room for bigger tires. I think I'm going to start buying a lift piece by piece. Like I said earlier, I've been eyeing the OME kit but aside from Tom's kit, I think the trend is to jump to JBA 2.5" rear springs. Then I thought I could use the "new" rear long Ironman shocks to save some money.
Bmxer524, why do you suggest the HD OME springs? Over the SD or MD OMEs... I recall someone saying they lost a good amount of flex due to the springs being too stiff. Is there a possibility I would have that issue with no extra weight added with HDs?
Author:  12KK SFD [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
I bought my Duratracs from Tire Rack. You won't find them by entering your vehicle information as that will only show properly rated tires for the KK. You'll have to search by size. The stock size (225s) are the E rated tires.
Author:  Dewphy [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Are these the Bilsteins I want for the front to go with the OMEs: http://jeepinbyal.com/collections/jeep-liberty-2008-2012-kk/products/bilstein-heavy-duty-front-strut? I figure these are the middle of the road, cost more than the ironmans but are cheaper than the OMEs.
Thanks!

12KK SFD, i have only been searching by size and brand...it seems part of the issue is my stock tires are 235s. Belle tire or tire rack dont even have the stock 235/70/16 Wrangler SR-As that came on my Jeep. it makes no sense.
Author:  Bmxer524 [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
If you want the 2.5" get the 927 fronts and most go with 731 rears. Same springs I run. Starts off stiff, but not jarring, and breaks in very nicely. As for front flex, it's possible. They have a 400lbs(pretty sure its 400) spring rate which gives the extra lift. I honestly can't compare them to the stock or JBA(haven't installed them yet).

Those are the Bilsteins you need. I have Bilstein front and rear shocks and love them.

As for my tires I went to a local shop and told him I wanted Goodyear Duratracs in 245/75-16. He went in back came back and said they have 2 loads available and I told him to get Cs. He gave me a great price. It matched the lowest I saw online plus he mounted and balanced them AND I didn't have to do any shipping.
Author:  12KK SFD [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Dewphy wrote:
12KK SFD, i have only been searching by size and brand...it seems part of the issue is my stock tires are 235s. Belle tire or tire rack dont even have the stock 235/70/16 Wrangler SR-As that came on my Jeep. it makes no sense.


To be fair, my stock SR-As are the 235s as well. But I went with the 225 Duratracs. There's a very minor difference in their sizing and it wasn't enough for me to worry about with the speedometer.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... mpare1=yes
Author:  tommudd [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 255/70R16s Stock/Minor Lift
Dewphy wrote:
Are these the Bilsteins I want for the front to go with the OMEs: http://jeepinbyal.com/collections/jeep-liberty-2008-2012-kk/products/bilstein-heavy-duty-front-strut? I figure these are the middle of the road, cost more than the ironmans but are cheaper than the OMEs.
Thanks!

12KK SFD, i have only been searching by size and brand...it seems part of the issue is my stock tires are 235s. Belle tire or tire rack dont even have the stock 235/70/16 Wrangler SR-As that came on my Jeep. it makes no sense.


You wouldn't want another set of the SR-As anyways , junk tires worst tire ever, just good enough to get them out the door to the dealerships
Plenty of 245-70-16s out there in good tires
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