Need some practical suggestions

stevemcc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:25 am

Hi all, been a while since I've been about a few jeeps have left the fold but the KJ is still here just. Hence this post.

What's the verdict on the a snorkle to improve fuel economy - I'm getting about 25-26/100 at the moment even on combined runs and its hurting. If I cant improve the economy the old girl will have to go. I'm not after much just maybe 18 would make a difference.

Any other ideas - filter is K&N and its clean.

cmohr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:24 am

I have not really found any significate fuel economy advantages with the snorkel. Its not really "That" kind on mod, It does what its suppose to do, fresh, clean air, keeps the water and dust out. Yes, I can say, the KJ breathes better with it, IE slight increase in power, that obviously means a better result in economy because you arn't jamming the pedal to floor aaaaalllllll the time to drive around. Maybe I get better ecomony with it, but, maybe the car is just running better at the moment. I also always run Premium 98, I do find that makes a significant difference. Yes It costs more, but, I go thru far less petrol. On standard , before I had the pinion reset done, and running the 245/75/16 STT's I was up there 25 odd per 100km.

I'm finding mine is getting between 14 and 19 per 100km at the moment. Thats running either of my 31' tyre/wheel combos, I did have the speedo "Pinion reset " done, that helps. If I drive just on the highway I can get even better than that. The other week, I got 530km out of 72 lts, thats 13.6lts per 100km. My trick is / was, I always buy on the cheap nights, I always use my fuel discount vouchers, I generally fill 4 jerry cans and the tank in the KJ, so YES many lts, and I get the milk( I'm going to but milk anyway so if I get it for free thats money off the fuel cost) at the petrol station, that gives me an extra 4c a litre off, So when I buy say 130lts minus 8c lt discount that saves me $10.00, plus the cheap nights are already 10 - 15c cheaper. And the 80lts of fuel I keep at home means If I trip on the weekend, I can still fill up the car and not have to pay weekend prices. I now only go to the petrol station approx once every three weeks, Unless I'm caught out somewhere low on fuel, then I just get enogh to get home.

Are you still running the 265/75/16's they would be the big contributing factor to fuel usage. 4.10 gears would cirtainly improve things by bringing the drive ratio back to almost standard with the bigger tyres, engine dosn't have to work as hard for the same speed/power output. I was trying to get cost on doing it myself, but, just ran out of steam on the project as I have run out of spare cash for the KJ (House improvment now take that money) One thing, get in and clean the MAF sensor. When Stu fitted my snorkel, he rreally got in a cleaned the whole air intake and then reset the ECU (by disconneting the battery for a few hours) and that in itself seemed to improve things as well.

I understand completely, fuel is getting soooooo expensive, we need to do whatever we can to offset the costs. Those darn CRD and their 8lts per 100 economy, so what if diesel is 20c more expensive you use half to a Third less.. I also looked very seriously at changing KJ to a CRD, but, the loss I would take on the change over, would be around 10 to 14 thousand and that would take a lot of years in lower running costs to recoup 10000 saved dollars in fuel costs, so for me it wasn't worth the money. If it was time for me to change vehicles, I woul ddefinately go for a diesel, but, alas, its not my time yet, and I think it will be a while.

I'd be quite happy to meet up with you and have a look see, if theres any "Glaring" reason as to why your economy is so bad. Happy to help if I can.

Its quite a conummdrum.

cmohr

Outback · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:16 am

Hi Mate,
I have done most of the things you have with the exception of the snorkel. I fitted a K&N filter (just the stadard one that goes in the normal holder) and Iridium spark plugs. (I think they get better ignition) Still the thing that eats the fuel is the big tyres and the lift, I am going to put my old AT stock tyres on the Alloy rims and get a set of cheap steeles for the STTs. It would only take about 20 minutes with the floor jack and the rattle gun to change over when I have a run on. The current millage is 400km per tank (takes about 72lts 17.2/lt/100) round town peak hour traffic, on the freeway I get about 15lt/100. I have had the pinion reset but with the Ltd and with the 17" rims it is still reading 5% lower than actual speed (highest setting available according to DC). With the ATs back on (lower profile) I will probably go back to about 15lt/100 around town and 13-14 on the highway.
Cmohr you probably noticed that with the gearing still a bit high because of the larger tyres your engine is hunting more coming up to hills and not holding overdrive as well as with the small tyres this is probably a big factor in the fuel economy merry go round.

Fouros · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:41 am

mate

i notoced a gain back of economy when i fitted the snork

i get about 13-15 highway with 31" Mudders steve

CD · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:47 am

I'd probably do the 4.10's or drop tyre size 1st, me thinks that's your best bet to improve fuel economy . I have no idea how much I use per 100 or any of that as I don't have one of those on board computers.

cmohr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:49 pm

Outback wrote:

Cmohr you probably noticed that with the gearing still a bit high because of the larger tyres your engine is hunting more coming up to hills and not holding overdrive as well as with the small tyres this is probably a big factor in the fuel economy merry go round.

Brian, Mines kinda wierd, It actually locks up and holds overdrive for too long sometimes

City driving I always tend to make sure I remember to bypass overdrive, heck, if it was a manual, I'd never select overdrive at 60km, so why it does select in the auto I don't know.... I think they did it for emissions in the states, but, its not drivable that way..

Lighter smaller tyres are the go for daily driving, yes... big differences would be seen going back to standard or close to standard sizing. Heck, even a less aggressive tread pattern is more economical, It all adds up, lift it, you lose milage, bigger tyres, you lose some more, roof racks, bumpers, more weight, you lose more again, Its a viscious circle.

CD I don't have the fanctpants EVIC either, I work mine out the old fashioned way, I reset the trip meter every time I fill up, and 90% of the time even use the same petrol pump to fill up. My fuel light comes on and if I fill up straight away its always 52-53lts, but if I;m carring a Jerry just to be safe , I can run it alll the way down till I almost stall and I can get in 72-73 lts. But, what ever I physicaly put in I look at the trip meter see how far I actually went and work it out.

I have thought about seeing if someone here in Australia is able to remap the ECU, you can get a flash done in the US that changes gear shift points, removes torque control and give you more power thus less wasted power/wasted fuel, but trying to organize all that from the other side of the planet seem like a lot of hard work. Everything I have read about Jetchips says they are a waste of time, so thats not an option either. There IS an answer out there, I just haven't found it yet.

stevemcc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:47 pm

Thanks all for the suggestions.

The 265's are I know a big cause of the problem, but given the way they are wearing I'll be looking for new rubber by the end of the year. The Pinion reset helped but I'm still about 10% out over 50km/h up to there its good but then just seems to jump to the error. A regear is a solution I think but I'm not 100% sure its the main cause my fuel economy was never that great, even stock I was never near Fouros 13-15, my old CJ was better than the KJ - should never have sold it :-(

I have the same problem as cmohr, overdrive just seems to lock in round town and stay locked in - very hard to get it to switch out or change down. I also feel something has gone wrong somewhere as recently I've been losing reverse again on slopes - nothing too steep but no movement - switch in to 4low or 4high and all is sweet but nothing in 2wd.

I've been searching for a CRD to swap too but there's not many about and the numbers are borderline. So... plan is to do some more cleaning, try and get the revolutions per mile set closer to accurate as we know that makes a difference and get the ecu reset. book in to get an answer on the reverse issue. then if I can get some gains I'll regear. In the mean time Ill have to get the dog a woolworths everyday saver card for the bonus fuel voucher and fill up every jerrry can I can find. :-)

Thanks again for all the advice.

mikey · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:49 pm

Got 11.13L / 100K average over a 3500K trip
Snorked, 245/75/16's, OME lift, and ran BP ultimate almost exclusively.
Very happy with that.
M.

cmohr · **Posted:** Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:52 am

Yeah, I find that my auto seems to not alway lock out the overdrive if i don't bypass it immediately after I start the car. IE, if I'm driving around, and forget to do it, then it starts that locking up in overdrive thing, just pressing the bypass doesn't not seem to stop the issue, I have to pull over , stop and restart the engine, bypass the o/d and then alls good.

Definately clean the MAF sensor, and reset the ecu. Disconnect the battery say, overnight after you clean the sensor, then when you start the car in the morning, just let it idle for about 10-15mins, don't rev it or anything, just let it idle and remap.

You could also , put in an air scoop in the grill area to help get nice fresh air into the airbox, that is one mod I did a couple of years ago, and that made a noticable difference to power and economy. I think I still have it lying around under the house. I works like a cold air intake, and fresh cool air makes for better combustion than the hot dirty air the the airbox tends to pull in form the engine bay.

Every 10 tanks of so I also run that fuel injector cleaner as well, I find it works.

Even with those big tyres you should be getting better than you are, so there is something else going on.

Oh and that rev thing, is part of the torque control system. When th etrasmission is cold, the torque control prevents the converter from locking up. If yours is doing it when hot, maybe the sensor is faulty and even though the transmission is hot, it may be telling the ecu its cold, thus preventing the converter from locking up. That could also explain a few of the running issues an dfuel economy as well. I'm not expert and not saying "THAT IT" but, it may be something to mention to th eservice guys.

As far as I am currently aware, Anthony from Costless, is now back down in the service dept at Albion,

stevemcc · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:13 am

Checked the MAF and its cleaner than new - all looks good... Stuck a bottle of injector cleaner into the tank and after 100k's its like some one put an extra engine under the hood :-)

Consumption still seems high but there is at least some power back.

Hadn't realised tha costless Bob had closed - but as entioned above Anthony is now at Albion so booked in there on Friday for the works - got the feelings its going to cost but whats the choice?

Also I worked out that if my indicated speed is still 10% out the pinion reset I had done must not have taken - did a comparison between speed on original rubber vs the new and it shows the difference I would have seen :-(

So its on the list for Friday. Fingers crossed for a cheap fix :-)

cmohr · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:59 pm

If your speedo is 10% out, that would also mean you are recording 10% less kilometers travelled (IE youactually travel 100km but, your speedo only records that you have travelled 90km), and that would look would make lts per 100km 10% higher. That would explain a bit of the higher fuel consumption as well.

OH PS... Say Gday to Anthony for me, tell, him , I need to book in for my 72,000 service soon.

stevemcc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:06 pm

Just had a phone call from Jeep and its ready

, service completed, injectors cleaned etc, etc, oh and a new transmission on order :shock:

No more details as yet but so very glad its still under warrenty and I did get them to confirm

Advice was no wheeling or heavy work until its replaced. Will post up if I get more info.

CD · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:30 pm

stevemcc wrote:

Just had a phone call from Jeep and its ready

, service completed, injectors cleaned etc, etc, oh and a new transmission on order :shock:

No more details as yet but so very glad its still under warrenty and I did get them to confirm

Advice was no wheeling or heavy work until its replaced. Will post up if I get more info.

That's good news Steve, let us know what happened to the transmission when they tell you. Also if there was a way to prevent it happening again.

stevemcc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:24 am

Got the KJ back and had a chat with the guys at Albion - apparently both the loss of reverse problem and the failure to shift out of overdrive were due to an internal failure within the transmission. I asked if they had any idea of the cuase and the response was that the transmission was probably always faulty and has just been limping along, and now is progressivly getting worse.

I've been trying to think what it could be exactly but no real ideas - none that would mean replacing the whole transmission other than a failure in the casting?

Pleasently surprised that no mention was made of the bigger tyres adding more strain, I even asked if there was something I could do to stop it happening again and was told, that no the problem was always there - so all under warrenty.

Additionally the suggestion was that this problem would have accounted for some of the excessive fuel consumption so even more good news.

New transmission coming up from Melbourne next week and fitted at my convience - might even gat a loaner if they can find one with a towbar.

Might get more info next week - if I do I'll let you know.

Team J.a.G · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:34 am

Mannnn!! that is great news all round. Not your fault, no Cost to you, All warranty work repairs will wil improve performance & economy....you gotta luv that :lol:

cmohr · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:08 am

Hmmmmm....Interesting??????

Are you still in your warrenty period or out and they still covered the replaement as it was always broken??????

stevemcc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:33 am

would have to check exact dates...but under 32,000ks, 2006 model ... think I'm still under warrenty, especially with the comments today.

Have to say very pleased with the outcome of today - might have cost $500 for an early 35K service, but from the sounds of things has saved major $$$'s.

Frustrating thing is I really don't know if it was a fundamental problem or something else. I did

Given the background though, Ive always had a problem with reverse and later the same issue as cmohr with OD. This is the second time its been back with these issues, once prior to mods, today with mods. Initially, no problems found, now as above. Feeling I get is that the transmission has a basic issue and mods bring on early failures. similar to the recall on the "CRD to reduce torque.

But I've been wrong before!

pipeliner · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:47 pm

stevemcc wrote:

I've been trying to think what it could be exactly but no real ideas - none that would mean replacing the whole transmission other than a failure in the casting?

As far as I can tell it is standard Jeep practice that if something is faulty they rip it out and replace it - no-one actually repairs anything any more! The actual fault could be as simple as a split pin put in back to front, but the labour cost of stripping the box down to replace it is probably more (to Jeep) than the cost of a complete new box.

stevemcc · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:15 pm

Finally the new transmission is in...

And the results - noticeably different to drive, holds more on slopes and I can now reverse up my street something I"ve not been able to do smoothly in 2WD since the KJ was new.

Also pinion reset seems to have finally stuck on the second attempt and speed is within 1 or 2 K's across the range.

And the best news 18-19/100 average after 400Ks

So its staying.

Had a chat with Craig at Albion as to what was wrong and again, no real idea, they had already replaced solanoids and valves in previous attempts and no luck so as pipeliner said the Chrysler stance now is replace rather than find the problem.

So all up I'm a happy jeeper again

cmohr · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:39 pm

Good news Steve..

I'm thinking I should get them to have a looksee at mine, but, sadly being out of warrentee they wouldn't replace it even if it was manufacture fault.

oh well.

Need some practical suggestions

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