New guy here, should I buy a CRD?

Gator4x · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:19 am

Hey all,
I've been reading a bunch of posts on this here site. I've been looking at these little Jeeps since '04, and I'm seriously considering buying one now.

Seems like 2/3's of the posts on here are regarding serious problems the CRD is having. A lot of times a new model has it's growing pains the first couple of model years, but we got cut short after 2 years of production. I can't see DC spending too much time on keeping the CRD's sold running in top shape.

What do you ya'll think? Would you do it again?

Also-on the 06's with traction control, if you turn it off, is it completely off? I have an '06 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona now and turning "off" the traction control only reduces its interaction, but it's still there! :evil:

Thanks in advance!

Oh yeah, and does anyone actually see 27 mpg on the highway?

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

Here is the mileage report from my 2005 CRD. The only problem I had was one bad glow plug. My overall mileage is 24.6 mpg. The values below are calculated by dividing the number of miles driven by gallons needed to fill up.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:49 am

Well, I have an 06 myself. I have about 3700 miles on mine and I am very happy with it so far. The only issue I really had with mine was the tranny shudder and harsh shift at 35 under light throttle. Both of these issues were corrected by the latest TSB flash. It seems to vary from what I have read on this forum. There are a couple of people that have many trouble free miles. One thing I try to remember when reading on a forum is that people often come here to find solutions to their problems so by nature you would see more problems than reports of happy trouble free miles. I am very happy with my liberty and if you really want a diesel Jeep this is the one to get. The CRD Grand Cherokee is likely to be priced a lot higher and will have all the new emissions equipment which will require the use of ULSD. The supply seems to be drying up so if you want one I would try to get one ASAP.

Good luck.

pokey555 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:47 pm **Posts:** 50

Gator,

Here is my opinion. It depends if you want or need a 4x4 with similar dimensions, there are better options with a gas engine. If you want a diesel engine and do not have size requirements a truck would be a better option, however; if you want a small suv and a diesel there is only one choice. If I had to do it over again I would have paid a more for an extended/four door truck with a diesel and manual transmission. I have ~6k on the jeep and have seen a best 26MPG, 6 trips to the dealer for miscellaneous problems. Two module flashes, two leaking transmission repairs, and two to document the oil consumption. Other remaining issues that will be taken care of next trip are: rear brakes (moaning/sticking), new transmission dipstick (retaining ring is broke), and lower ball joints. Overall I am not impressed, but I am keeping it until it rots or implodes and I cannot fix it for a reasonable cost. This is not just a two year production cycle either; our friends over the ponds have had a diesel option since the vehicle release.

Rob

spoonplugger1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:11 am

If you can find a vehicle that gets this mileage, tows 5000 lbs well, has good off road capabilities, great when easily modified, than buy it. I flat love mine, 24,000 miles and smiling. :lol:

Endurance · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:29 am

Id probalby say you have to be lucky. Its an awesome vehicle to own, IF you dont have to go to the dealer all the time, which really wears you out. Im sure there are enough trouble free CRD's out there. I have 15000 miles on mine and just had the TC and transmission pump replaced. Im still waiting for the EGR to fail and expect the transmission to go bad again within the next 15000 miles.

Mileage is not very good. I am seeing 20mpg driving 50/50 and VERY conservative. Best I've ever seen was 23.8 on a 4 hour highway trip going 65mph.

Personally I think the CRD feels a little slow and not very responsive around town. The gasser is much more fun to drive around town and more agile.
On the highway/interstate this changes though, the CRD is much more fun to drive.

KenJennings · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:52 am

I just charted my MPG. My best mileage falls into Mosfet's worst mileage range. The few high points (around 5300 and 7600) are a result of extended nonstop highway traveling on vacation.

The last time I had it in for an oil change I remarked about what I thought was bad mileage and the Stealer said it was operating normally. Now that I have a chart I'll bring that and maybe mosfet's chart above and let them explain why one CRD gets 20mpg and another gets 27mpg.

I'm sure part of it is perception and familiarity with diesels. I figure the dealer only knows disel applications done in trucks for the hauling performance, not efficiency. (Where a TDI VW is done for the efficiency.) My boss regularly tows his boat using his F350 with a diesel and is happy getting 9mpg, so he thinks my (poor) CRD mileage is phenomenal. The CRD application falls somewhere in between performance and efficiency. The vehicle is small enough to expect decent mileage, though I certainly don't expect the TDI VW's 47mpg. I also don't expect mileage for routine use 25 to 30 percent lower than every other CRD on the planet.

midwest · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 am **Posts:** 173

Endurance wrote:

Id probalby say you have to be lucky. Its an awesome vehicle to own, IF you dont have to go to the dealer all the time, which really wears you out. Im sure there are enough trouble free CRD's out there. I have 15000 miles on mine and just had the TC and transmission pump replaced. Im still waiting for the EGR to fail and expect the transmission to go bad again within the next 15000 miles.

Mileage is not very good. I am seeing 20mpg driving 50/50 and VERY conservative. Best I've ever seen was 23.8 on a 4 hour highway trip going 65mph.

Personally I think the CRD feels a little slow and not very responsive around town. The gasser is much more fun to drive around town and more agile.
On the highway/interstate this changes though, the CRD is much more fun to drive.

Not responsive around town? You have a different crd than I do.

Endurance · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:38 pm

midwest wrote:

Endurance wrote:

Id probalby say you have to be lucky. Its an awesome vehicle to own, IF you dont have to go to the dealer all the time, which really wears you out. Im sure there are enough trouble free CRD's out there. I have 15000 miles on mine and just had the TC and transmission pump replaced. Im still waiting for the EGR to fail and expect the transmission to go bad again within the next 15000 miles.

Mileage is not very good. I am seeing 20mpg driving 50/50 and VERY conservative. Best I've ever seen was 23.8 on a 4 hour highway trip going 65mph.

Personally I think the CRD feels a little slow and not very responsive around town. The gasser is much more fun to drive around town and more agile.
On the highway/interstate this changes though, the CRD is much more fun to drive.

Not responsive around town? You have a different crd than I do.

No not really. Did you ever drive a gasser around town? The gasser is much more responsive, the CRD always has to "think" a second before it accelerates. This is most obvious when your turning or when you try to accelerate very quickly.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:40 pm

19K trouble free miles and still smiling!

The problem with public forums is: 1) Everyone who has a problem posts them, 2) They only represent a sampleing of the user base, 3) Often those with troubles represent a higher level of participation because they started out with a problem that they are looking for solutions to so they sought out a forum! Of course those are also the good things about a public forum.

Some specific issues. Even those with under 27 MPG Highway are getting better than they would in a gasser. It is the only vehical in its class that can tow anything substantial. It is the only one in its class that is really off road capable with tons of torque. It is probably the most all around capable truck on the road.

Downsides are that it is going.....going....gone, but only in North American as it has been available in Europe, Asia and Africa for a long time and still is. It is loud. Some have experienced problems but others have not.

Gator4x · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:53 pm

Hmm. Interesting info guys. Ya still can't complain too much about the mileage thing. My average is 18-19 mpg with 70hwy/30city in my Hemi Charger. I also have a '95 Cherokee with a 5spd. I got 25mpg in it until I lifted it and put 31's on. Now I get 15mpg... :shock:

I did the diesel truck thing. They are big and use a fair amount of fuel. I was getting about 14mpg in my 2005 F250 crew cab short bed 4x4 w/auto tranny and 6.0L PSD. I had a 2004 2wd Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins that got about 17mpg avg. Plus these trucks are fricken expensive!

I'm looking at some used Liberties that range from $17k-$22k with anywhere from 1500 miles to 20k miles. My drive is about 70 miles round trip to work. most of that (~60 miles) is straight boring highway travel with hardly any traffic.

I like the sound and smell and torque and mileage that diesels get. The libby seems to fit me OK. Wish it was bigger like the XJ's, wish it had solid axles, manual tranny, command trac, and a fully boxed hydroformed ladder frame, but other than that it's perfect!

hahaha I could go for a new 4-door wrangler with a Diesel. That would be killer. But they don't make it. So anyway...

Can anyone answer the ESP/traction control question?

thanks for all the responses!!!!

Nick

cocojo · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:57 pm

There is one thing I would like to see changed, that is the transmission shudder. My vehicle feels different at 52,53, 54, 55, then pans out smooth. There is no reason on this earth that DC should not address this problem. A new vehicle should not act this way. Other than that I love the vehicle. I have had no problems that relate to the engine at all. I does hesitate when taking off, which gas does not do and top end flattens out. When I bought my jeep CRD I wanted better fuel mileage over my Grand Cherokee V8 at 14.5 mpg.
I get anywhere from 19.5 to 22.5 with my Jeep depending on where I am headed. Most of the time it's around town and occassional highway. Sometimes I wish it did have more boost at highway speeds but around town it's great. If DC fixes this tranny problem the vehicle would be awsome. I never drove the gas liberty so I cannot comment of the difference between the two, I was looking for fuel mileage and the gasser gets less mpg. Some say 145 others say 18. All I know is that my CRD gets around 20.5 to 21 on the average with my driving habits.
I just bought my wife a new 07 Honda CR-V 4 and this vehicle is so smooth and has plenty of response, what a vehicle. This vehicle is one nice vehicle to drive. She loves it. So far 22.5 to 23 mpg and it's not broken in yet. Plus it has move room inside than my Liberty.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:51 pm

Nick:

If you wait, they WILL get the 4 door Wrangler Unlimited with a diesel(they make it and send it to Euroope) the only problem is that the engine they end up using here in the US will be a bastardized version of the one they can use overseas because of the California emissions standards that scare weak-minded manufactures. We'll probably get the Unlimited with a Mercedes 3.0L bluetech engine for the US, which is new and gonna have the new-engine problems in the first few years,especially because it will have even more electronics running it. Luckily, the 2.8L in our Libby CRD is a tried and true motor with a historyin Europe.

I have my dealer friend calling me all the time with the latest diesel rumor...he knows I'm a sucker for a diesel and can't wait to sell me a diesel Unlimited. The Unlimited is basically a bigger,more versitile design with all the potential options....just a worse break-over angle than the Libby . I'd trade my 2.8L CRD libby for a 2.8L CRD Unlimited with half-doors....but the Unlimited would cost way more than what I paid for the Libby and have a worse weight to power ratio. But a 4 door soft-top? How sweet!

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:15 am

If you push the button to "turn off" ESP it does not complety turn it off. Basically what it does is turn off the part that would cut back the throttle when wheelspin is detected. You can push that button and powerbrake it and it will just sit there and smoke the tires if you wanted too. Well one will be smoking and the other one will be spin-stop-spin-stop as the traction control does its thing. Overall I think it works very well. People complain about it in 4HI but I think if they would just push the button they could spin their wheels and be happy :lol:

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:50 am

Poor performance can often be a sign of a failing EGR....even if it hasn't failed to the point where it throws a CEL. Milage really varies and I can tell you that for a fact it can have something to do with where you get your fuel as well. I did a test with my TDI one time and found that under the exact same driving conditions my milage per tank went down approximately 4 mpg when using fuel of a lesser quality. My test was done using my normal diet of BP Power-blend premium diesel and then switching over to the Royal farms Diesel fuel. There was also a puff of smoke with the royal farms fuel when the vehicle was started. I also increase my tire pressure to 85% of the max sidewall value (38lbs). My CRD also runs great on the BP power-blend. I would run a B5 blend if I had biodiesel locally available, but the closest station is about an hour away so I run straight dino for now.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Cowcatcher wrote:

19K trouble free miles and still smiling!

The problem with public forums is: 1) Everyone who has a problem posts them, 2) They only represent a sampleing of the user base, 3) Often those with troubles represent a higher level of participation because they started out with a problem that they are looking for solutions to so they sought out a forum! Of course those are also the good things about a public forum.

Some specific issues. Even those with under 27 MPG Highway are getting better than they would in a gasser. It is the only vehical in its class that can tow anything substantial. It is the only one in its class that is really off road capable with tons of torque. It is probably the most all around capable truck on the road.

Downsides are that it is going.....going....gone, but only in North American as it has been available in Europe, Asia and Africa for a long time and still is. It is loud. Some have experienced problems but others have not.

Cowcatcher hit it. The members on this site are a very tiny fraction of the estimated 11,000 CRDs sold in the U.S. in the past two years. I've said this before and will re-iterate. When the same one or two hundred people post about the same 3 or 4 redundant (often fix-able, if diagnosed and addresssed early enough) problems, it can make those problems appear more amplified and wide-spread than they really are across the entire lot of 11,000 CRDs.

Find a CRD with low milage. Get the Transmission Filter TSB and the software flashes done and then pay very close attention to the amount of transmission fluid in the resevoir right after the the Filter TSB is finished (check the fluid in Park, NOT NEUTRAL) and be proactive about all the maintenance.

A good number of problems that folks were having with their transmissions were just due to not enough historical information and fixes to look back upon. The history is forming now.

As for the EGR, if ULSD doesnt smooth out the problem, I suspect a class-action suit against Daimler-Chrylser once these warranties begin to run out and people have to cough up a couple of hundred dollars every 10,000 miles. But again, a lot of people don't seem to have the EGR issues either.

Enjoy your new CRD. Mine is my first SUV and my first Diesel and I drove from Atlanta to Orlando (approx 442 miles) and needed to stop and fill up just outside of Orlando. I'm convinced I could have made it the whole way w/o filling up ... great time saver not having to stop for semi-distance travels like that. At least not for gas anyhow - now the 2 cups of coffee I drank during the trip .... whole other story :shock:

marauderer · **Posted:** Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:42 am

I have over 13,000 mi. and I think it is great. It is one of the big sleepers out there. Lots of fun just being stock with loads of potential.

I put over 5K mi. going to Elko, NV and back towing a trailer weighing about 2K, Three large adults with gear and ran 85 mph. The Libby just ate it up.

Go for it.

longarm · **Posted:** Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:56 pm

...........

marauderer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:51 am

longarm wrote:

marauderer, I was looking into a possible job oppertunity in Elko, NV. It looks really nice out that way.

Elko is a small town of 16,000. I don't know what the job market is but if you like the high Sierra desert you wioll like Elko. I went out for the Annual KTM motorcycle owners rally. I put 500 mi. in the desert between Friday afternoon and Saturday. It like to kill me as I wasn't in shape for it. On Saturday at lunch the nearest paved road in any direction was at least 100 mi. Would I like to go back? Yes. Could I live there? Yes.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:00 am

marauderer wrote:

longarm wrote:

marauderer, I was looking into a possible job oppertunity in Elko, NV. It looks really nice out that way.

Elko is a small town of 16,000. I don't know what the job market is but if you like the high Sierra desert you wioll like Elko. I went out for the Annual KTM motorcycle owners rally. I put 500 mi. in the desert between Friday afternoon and Saturday. It like to kill me as I wasn't in shape for it. On Saturday at lunch the nearest paved road in any direction was at least 100 mi. Would I like to go back? Yes. Could I live there? Yes.

Same here guys, but I like NM better.

As for me the Jeep will most likely be a keeper for our daughter, as long as the EGR problem is cured.

So far there is only one real problem that I have with the CRD other then having to do EHM or Provent to keep oil out of system and being too small for me.

No matter how hard I try I can not change the oil without a mess all over me or the garage floor or both, thanks to oilfilter placement, skids and crossmember all in same location.

New guy here, should I buy a CRD?

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