Don't hold your breath for the Diesel Grand Cherokee

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:29 pm

I have heard from a very reliable source that DC might be scraping the Diesel GC. Have you noticed the commercial with the "Dirty Jeeps with Clean Fuel" has not been played lately? There is a reason for that. I called someone about it and DC is having real concerns about the quality of US fuels and the uncertainty of all the stations converting to ULSD. So for sure don't plan on seeing a Wrangler CRD anytime soon, stateside at least.

Looks like we are the only ones who get a Diesel Jeep anytime soon.

Endurance · **Posted:** Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:49 pm

That doesnt make any sense though. They knew beforehand what kind of quality ULSD is going to have. By law the quality has to meet certain standards. Also, Mercedes came out with the E320 CDI, GL320 CDI (I drove one of those, very nice

) and the ML is going to have the Diesel as well. And you can buy the Freightliner Sprinter , which is a Mercedes, as a AMG Diesel.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

I bet they will just delay it. After they screwed up the Libby CRD so bad with the bad fuel/EGR, software bugs/ tranny issues, they are wisely waiting for someone else to test the waters perhaps? The last thing they need is to have any reliability problems related to fuel/egr or whatnot with this new motor, it will kill diesel for them if they do. I think it will come out later or in more limited numbers, but will eventually come out.

Now the question is: will it sell? That is alot of dough and most soccer mommies won't see the value in a CRD. Most diesel heads that want to tow stuff-- for that price-- will get a Cummins RAM. That leaves us diesel enthusiast/4x4er's. We have already bought Libby's, despite the fact that many of us would have rather had a Wrangler diesel. At $40,000 most of us are not going to play in that market, even if we had not already bought a Libby.

We need the new wrangler to have the VM diesel stateside and a gladiator with a diesel. That will sell big bukoo bucks in AZ. People will be fighting in the streets.... ok, maybe not fighting but you never know.

Jeep's new line up:

A 4-banger cute ute that looks like a XJ (sure to p1ss off XJ guys) and too gutless and underbuilt for anyone to ever want to drive-- let alone develop a mod market for. So what happened to the 4-banger Liberty? Oh no sales so they axed it,,,, hmmm, so why are you doing this? == Patriot

A fat, Pontiak Aztek ugly station wagon with bad gas mileage, bad handling, and a puny motor== Compass,

A $40,000+ mommie/real estate developer lux mobile == Grand Cherokee CRD.

Um I don't know what they are thinking with all this. The Grand Cherokee is the best idea of the three, there at least should be more than 4 people who want to buy it-- so it would not surprise me if they wack it first.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

DarbyWalters wrote:

I have heard from a very reliable source that DC might be scraping the Diesel GC. Have you noticed the commercial with the "Dirty Jeeps with Clean Fuel" has not been played lately. I called someone about it and DC is having real concerns about the quality of US fuels and the uncertainty of all the staions converting to ULSD. So for sure don't plan on seeing a Wrangler CRD anytime soon stateside.

Looks like we are the only ones who get a Diesel Jeep anytime soon.

Look on the bright side With all the warranty money DC saves on not selling the GC CRD, they can now setup up a national roadside tent repair network for Liberty CRD's. Each station (tent, leftovers of the promo Liberty tents) will be equipped with 100 egr valves, 12 torque converters, radiator and transmission fluid and 1000 handy wipes useful for emergency turbo hose cleanings. These stations will be strategically placed on major interstates, with trained mechanics with special skills to spot struggling Liberty CRD's. Each mechanic will have at least 30 hours of training on:

Spotting a black diesel plume behind Liberty CRD's - the first sign of a dying egr valve

Spotting a frantic Liberty CRD owner as their vehicle refuses to decelerate at signal lights, dancing crazily as the driver frantically fights the brake and finally kills the engine when the TC sticks in the "closed position". A video of how to shift to neutral is provided at no charge if within the 3 year, 36K mile warranty provision. All others will pay a shipping and handling charge of $100 USD per video, which also requires a European 220V PAL VCR/television to view. Available as soon as ULSD is available at every station.

Airial spotting skills from helicoptors on freeway acceleration ramps - CRD's who accelerate and then lurch wildly as the driver lifts off the pedal at 65 mph. These drivers are expecting the vehicle to cruise smoothly instead of the bucking and lurching they incur - they need a pamplet, a video and a 10 step program to break this bad habit of expectation as "all of the CRD's run this way" - but these CRD owners stubbornly refuse to believe this is normal. They need to be educated in the ways of diesel lore of German heritage via deprogramming of their gasser bad habits.

Moaning/smoking rear brakes - each mechanic will be equipped with a heat seeking, laser guided rocket pack, warhead tipped with a CO2 fire extinguisher cartridge. Also packed into the warhead is a pound and a half of instructional confetti, explaining how to properly use sticking rear brakes in a safe and 13K/37K mile saving manner, whichever avoids warranty repair first. Targetting practice will be provided to these "Top Gun" techs, as warranty reimbursement will not be provided to techs who extinguish brake fires of a non Jeep nature.

As a last resort, a glossy for the new ML/GL diesel SUV will be provided for each CRD owner who can no longer stand the monthly dealer repair visit. This will restore confidence and contentment to the DC customer. The glossy has a minimal 6 dollar charge, refundable on the purchase of any ML320 or GL 350 CDI with the premium sunroof package.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:47 pm

Feeling a bit cranky today are we? :wink:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Goglio704 wrote:

Feeling a bit cranky today are we? :wink:

Just having a good laugh at my CRD experience - thinking how I could turn it into a Peter Sellers movie.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:57 pm

Truth can be stranger (and funnier) than fiction, no doubt.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Another possibility - Jeep dealers may not want another diesel Jeep. Remember, they had to spend 10K plus travel expense for each certified diesel tech they sent to DC school on the Liberty CRD. They were rewarded by what looks to be a high warranty return rate (low reimbursement work) and product cancellation after 18 months.

As business owners, they may have questioned DC's long term committmet to the GC CRD. After all, EPA diesel emission laws are not finished yet - they tighten again in 2009 and 2011 - I imagine they might want some assurance they won't be stuck with the cancelled product after a couple of years. As incredible as it seems, with gasolene prices coming down, customer interest in diesels just isn't as high as it was 6 months ago. People have short memories sometimes.

If I were thinking of a GC CRD, I would be spending some serious time wondering if I would end up with another orphaned vehicle if BlueTec doesn't work out for DC. DC could help alleviate some of these concerns by thinking outside of their box - for instance, by promising full MB service on any Jeep product with a Mercedes diesel engine in it. But just launching another diesel without some assurance that new owners aren't just another marketing test probably isn't going to work out well for them. Their credibility has been somewhat damaged by the Liberty CRD handling.

They really need something to repair that relationship, especially now that they are bleeding red ink. They need something so innovative that its never been tried before - something that would restore new and returning diesel jeep owners confidence in them. Something that might cost them capital dollars in the short term, but really jump start sales in the Jeep line. They'll have to really think outside the box to to do this. But they need to address the bad PR they have on the Liberty CRD market test.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:57 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Feeling a bit cranky today are we? :wink:

Just having a good laugh at my CRD experience - thinking how I could turn it into a Peter Sellers movie.

And I thought I was having a bad CRD day. Had several days where I didn't need the Jeep so took it to the dealer Wednesday morning for an oil change, fuel filter and the LBJ & F31 recalls and it hasn't come home yet. Want to take a SWAG at this one....couldn't get a data link to reflash the TCM. Too bad, looks like TCM #3 will be sent sometime next week with the new software pre-loaded. The positive thing is their diesel tech knew exactly why this was happening and didn't waste a lot of time or mince words with STAR in asking for a replacement TCM.

BIGPAPACRD · **Joined:** Wed May 10, 2006 11:25 pm **Posts:** 29

I have the perfect name for the crd movie but the dealer techs should be used to this one. At least this is the answer given to every problem the arrises with the crd " IT'S NORMAL".

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Ranger1 wrote:

They really need something to repair that relationship, especially now that they are bleeding red ink. They need something so innovative that its never been tried before - something that would restore new and returning diesel jeep owners confidence in them. Something that might cost them capital dollars in the short term, but really jump start sales in the Jeep line. They'll have to really think outside the box to to do this. But they need to address the bad PR they have on the Liberty CRD market test.

You mean... something like... customer service? Wow, that would be revolutionary. That is sad, but true.

KJMedic · **Posted:** Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:24 pm

BIGPAPACRD wrote:

I have the perfect name for the crd movie but the dealer techs should be used to this one. At least this is the answer given to every problem the arrises with the crd " IT'S NORMAL".

I used to think that the Service Reps. were crazy when they said "It's normal" Now I think that they knew more than we gave them credit for, because it is becoming more and more "NORMAL" for a CRD to break.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:17 pm

Instead of the stupid compass, Jeep should have come out wtih a pickup (comanche?). This would have been a viable option for a diesel and I feel it would have been a lot more likely to sell a pickup than a junky compass. The Liberty, Wrangler, and GC are the bread and butter for Jeep. Also, we seem to be placing too much on that fact that people are buying a diesel only for towing. If I am going to spend 40k+ for a GC, why not get something that gets good fuel economy....not everyone wants a Hemi in it....so IMO the diesel would appeal to anyone who doesn't have their heart set on a Hemi....but does have their heart set on a GC and wants the best possible fuel economy. Many people just don't understand what the Diesel world is all about since most of them have been poisoned by the GM diesels of the late 70's/ early 80's. Let em test drive it, get the salesman to talk em into it....I would be willing to bet at least 3 out of 5 go for the gobs of torque and superior fuel economy...not to mention the other various benefits of owning a diesel. They have already done the test...and I would predict that a Diesel GC would sell just as well if not better than the CRD liberty....another selling point the salesman will use is the fact that it has a mercedes engine ....which anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the past 30 years knows that Mercedes engines are known for their longevity and reliability. Another selling piont, resale value....the resale value for a Diesel is higher than a comparable gasoline vehicle..period.

DC is probably getting cold feet.....there will be a lot of problems with people misfueling these vehicles and damaging the emissions equipment...that is just going to happen until every fuel outlet has only ULSD at the pump. This is why other automakers are taking their time in bringing their diesels to market....e.g. VW - 2008, Honda estimated 2009....etc. Unfortunately, there are stupid people out there who will misfuel their vehicles....if they can't tell the difference between Gas and Diesel...do you really expect them to be able to tell the difference between ULSD and LSD? That is asking a little too much IMHO.

bhysjulien · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:37 pm

I still think that the Jeep employees should buy the company and get back to building 4x4's.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:48 pm

no-blue-screen wrote:

DC is probably getting cold feet.....there will be a lot of problems with people misfueling these vehicles and damaging the emissions equipment...that is just going to happen until every fuel outlet has only ULSD at the pump. This is why other automakers are taking their time in bringing their diesels to market....e.g. VW - 2008, Honda estimated 2009....etc. Unfortunately, there are stupid people out there who will misfuel their vehicles....if they can't tell the difference between Gas and Diesel...do you really expect them to be able to tell the difference between ULSD and LSD? That is asking a little too much IMHO.

The real issue is the economics of small diesels are up-side-down at the moment, gas is cheap and diesel technology (esp the '07 variety) is expensive. Wait until gas is selling for $3+/gal again or worse, spot shortages/lines waiting to fill-up. Small diesels will make a lot of sense again.

As for Jeep offering another diesel product in the near future, one just needs to ask a simple question; Will a $40K+ GC CRD buyer tolerate the mechanical problems that plague the $25K Liberty CRD owners for marginal fuel savings? If someone can afford to put a $40K+ vehicle on the road, it's likely that fuel cost will be secondary to reliability.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:03 pm

RFCRD wrote:

The real issue is the economics of small diesels are up-side-down at the moment, gas is cheap and diesel technology (esp the '07 variety) is expensive. Wait until gas is selling for $3+/gal again or worse, spot shortages/lines waiting to fill-up. Small diesels will make a lot of sense again.

Hmm, well the elections are the day after tommorrow, so I expect $3 gas by Friday :evil:

Meanwhile, how about a DC making a small passenger diesel to compete against VW and Prius...in catagory where fuel economy is the issue? Not really Jeep territory, but a Dodge, maybe? (only Jeep possibility: AMC Eage type). DC has a small brand in Europe (Smart) and they are dropping the ball not selling them here.

My TDI Jetta kicks any Prius's butt in performance, styling, fuel economy and price. Both are expensive new, so a lower priced high mpg car would seem to be a lock in that market...

Dreaming....

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:49 pm

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

The real issue is the economics of small diesels are up-side-down at the moment, gas is cheap and diesel technology (esp the '07 variety) is expensive. Wait until gas is selling for $3+/gal again or worse, spot shortages/lines waiting to fill-up. Small diesels will make a lot of sense again.

Meanwhile, how about a DC making a small passenger diesel to compete against VW and Prius...in catagory where fuel economy is the issue? Not really Jeep territory, but a Dodge, maybe? (only Jeep possibility: AMC Eage type). DC has a small brand in Europe (Smart) and they are dropping the ball not selling them here.

My TDI Jetta kicks any Prius's butt in performance, styling, fuel economy and price. Both are expensive new, so a lower priced high mpg car would seem to be a lock in that market...

Dreaming....

Well don't hold your breath too long. With the '07 emissions, the combination of cheap and diesel will be tough to achieve in any vehicle, let alone low priced car. I like my friend's Jetta TDI but when it came to making a choice for my 100 mile/day, high-speed commute I wanted something big, loaded, smooth & quite (cheap & simple was also a consideration). Found that a simple Chevy Impala will consistantly deliver 31 mpg and yet to have a problem in 60K miles. When I put a pencil to the numbers, couldn't make either Toyota or Honda hybrids or a VW TDI work for me despite the better fuel economy so I got the Chevy instead.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I thought there was a thread here awhile back about DCX buying 100,000 tdi engines from VW to put in a small north american car (compass?/nitro?).

Whatever happened with that?

bhysjulien · **Posted:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:13 pm

I believe I posted that. It was in Diesel Power or Diesel World. The article didn't say which vehicle it was going to be put in or even if the vehicle would be available in NA. With the way DC makes decisions they probably bought them to put in a "special" version of the Rubicon that is only going to be imported to Antarctica because a focus group said the penguins would love them.

Marlon_JBT · **Posted:** Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:21 am

vtdog wrote:

I thought there was a thread here awhile back about DCX buying 100,000 tdi engines from VW to put in a small north american car (compass?/nitro?).

Whatever happened with that?

Those engines are going in the Caliber, Compass and Patriot.

Don't hold your breath for the Diesel Grand Cherokee

Who is online