To keep the CRD or to bail...

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:34 pm

Well, I am once again considering selling or trading the Jeep for the reason that it is not getting any newer, and parts and service are not getting any easier to get. I went to the trouble of buying it back after the wife and I traded it last year. It has 89K miles now, and everything works fine, and it runs the way it should. There is nothing wrong with it, hence the reason I am wondering if I should unload it now or continue on with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the thing... dearly. I just got offered more work with a different company, and will likely be putting even more mileage on my vehicles very soon. I have been avoiding driving the CRD a lot lately in order to keep the miles down. If I do replace it, it would be with something a bit more economical, both in purchase price and fuel economy. 4wd is not necessary, although it has been a great help many a time. I am leaning towards a Ford Fiesta 5 speed, or I may go all out and get a Ford Focus ST so I have something fun to drive. So far, I have gotten many lowball trade figures, both on the Jeep and my wifes car, from Ford... so I doubt I will be doing anything immediately, but I am certainly weighing my options. What are the CRD's worth now? I don't always trust the book values on rare vehicles, such as our Jeeps. I'd sell it outright, but still owe on it, so that would be a PITA (been there before). So... should I stay or should I bail?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:43 pm

Dealers make a bundle on used car sales, so you will almost never get the best deal by trading it in.

When you go to trade, whatever you are bringing in will be "we can't move those at all / they really aren't worth what KBB says they are" until they have it on their lot. Then instantly it will change to "We can't keep these on our lot, they really are worth so much more than KBB says."

Private sale is your best option, especially if you have other vehicles to drive while detailing and listing it for sale. With the CRD, if you do sell, you are better off not driving it while trying to sell it - she can be a vindictive wench, and will know what you are thinking.

I am not advocating one way or the other for you, just providing some food for thought. I think you may get the best price from a member / lurker here, but there is no harm in creating a gmail address and putting it out on Craigslist. At least that is free... You just have to deal in person and in cash. Way way too many scammers on there sometimes.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:01 pm

Well - you do need to be clear about what you want the Jeep to accomplish.

if a Focus can fit your needs - then it's a lot easier to deal with.

personally I bought mine to be able to drive 900+ miles, climb mountain passes and then drive back.......
neither then nor now is there any competition to the Liberty. (although the JK's are getting pretty close)

you do need to be comfortable working on it yourself - nowhere near enough trained mechanics.

Parts - should be able to get everything out of Europe - may be longer shipping - but still available.

but - it needs to fit what you want to do.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:31 pm

My issue is that if it goes TU, I am without it for an unknown amount of time while I wait on parts. It does do what I want it to do, that is not the issue. However, we have the Subaru which will go offroad if I need. That said, there are places that the Jeep can go which my Subaru cannot. Our other option was to trade in the Subaru and keep the Jeep. My wife drives upward of 160 miles a day between work and school. This is Subaru #2 in the past year. The first one lost an engine at 16K, took a month for them to build an engine (new engine), and we traded that in Nov. 2012 at 21K miles. Now, Subaru #2, which has a different engine (no timing belt on the '13 Outbacks) lost the manual tranny at 7500 miles stranding me atop of a mountain, and I had to walk 3 miles to the nearest road, then at 10K the rear axle went, and at 16K it started using oil. Subaru gave us a settlement on that, and we were debating trading that in... however, the dealers way lowballed us. One offered us very close to what we wanted, but not sure if it is wise. The car has 19K now. We were planning to keep that until the warranty runs out at 60K, which will be next May, which also happens to be when my wife graduates and will no longer need to commute. Back to the Jeep: selling it on my own would be an option if someone would be willing to work with me regarding the title. It has a loan on it, that is, it is not paid off. I do not hold the title, that is why it'd be easier to simply trade it in if I do anything. At this point I am probably going to do nothing, but again... I want to explore all of our options. I appreciate the feedback so far!

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:36 pm

If I were in your situation knowing what I know now, especially owing money on it, it would be traded in tomorrow for some small car like a ford focus or a 4x4 ranger or the like immediately.

The only reason I keep repairing mine is that it's paid for, if I were making payments I would've traded it the MOMENT I repaired the top end after the rocker/lifter debacle.

I love this little Jeep, but it's a real Mother Effer.

Seriously Mike, get while the getting is good.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:40 pm

Hexus wrote:

If I were in your situation knowing what I know now, especially owing money on it, it would be traded in tomorrow for some small car like a ford focus or a 4x4 ranger or the like immediately.

The only reason I keep repairing mine is that it's paid for, if I were making payments I would've traded it the MOMENT I repaired the top end after the rocker/lifter debacle.

I love this little Jeep, but it's a real Mother Effer.

Seriously Mike, get while the getting is good.

That is kind of my thought on the thing. It is the neatest and most capable vehicle I have ever owned, but I really don't need a major headache or expense if it goes tits up...

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

I'd bail and in fact, I'm trying to do the same so I can buy a new Hyundai and not worry about anything for 100k miles.

My biggest CRD fear is the engine goes Tango Uniform before I sell it and get stuck with an expensive paperweight. Used engines that are often high mileage are selling on Fleabay for crazy money.

......T.U. story: Worked for a female officer in Afghanistan. I used Tango Uniform in a sentence in front of her and she said, "What exactly do you mean by Tango Uniform?" Without batting an eye, I replied, "Ma'am, it means totallly useless........"

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:15 pm

Drewd wrote:

......T.U. story: Worked for a female officer in Afghanistan. I used Tango Uniform in a sentence in front of her and she said, "What exactly do you mean by Tango Uniform?" Without batting an eye, I replied, "Ma'am, it means totallly useless........"

Haha!! I say "tango uniform" and most people have no freakin idea what that means. Even the abbreviation "T.U." gets some questions. I usually just go all the way and say "tits up." I offend a lot of folks, whats a few more...
What Hyundai are you looking at?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Not if. When.

I didn't know you had a note on it. That changes things a bit, and Hexus is right: bail out while it is running. Go back to the dealer that 'almost' gave you what you wanted, and do it. Better to lose a little now, than lose a LOT in a repair and still be losing that little on value from the offer. Consider the lost money... Paying for a repair that you won't need to do.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:06 am

MRausch82 wrote:

if it goes tits up...

OH, that's what U meant...... Geesh

Sell it if you can't do the maintenance yourself.

But dang I sure would miss it.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:08 am

Before I bought my CRD, I had a '10 Focus SE with a 5-speed. It was a hoot to drive, especially in the hills of Monroe County Indiana. It also had satellite radio. Fun, fun, fun! Drove it off of the lot and put 50k on it in a year and a half. Got rid of it to drive a diesel as I work in the industry. Wanted to learn about diesels the hands-on way.

My Liberty is fun as well. Especially love the torque and it worked well in the snows this past winter. I work on it myself but have had only a couple of issues with it so far. It currently sits at 145K.

With all that said, if you don't want to work on it, or can't afford the down time of having someone else work on it for you, then, yeah, you might wanna bail.

A Ford Focus of any variation is BORING when compared to the CRD in terms of what you have to do to keep it going. Change the oil, rotate the tires, throw a set of plugs and filters at it when needed. Ditto for the timing belt. But that's it! Routine stuff, no special tools (except for maybe the T-Belt) and you are off and running. Hope this helps.

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:41 am

Hoosier CRD wrote:

Before I bought my CRD, I had a '10 Focus SE with a 5-speed. It was a hoot to drive, especially in the hills of Monroe County Indiana. It also had satellite radio. Fun, fun, fun! Drove it off of the lot and put 50k on it in a year and a half. Got rid of it to drive a diesel as I work in the industry. Wanted to learn about diesels the hands-on way.

My Liberty is fun as well. Especially love the torque and it worked well in the snows this past winter. I work on it myself but have had only a couple of issues with it so far. It currently sits at 145K.

With all that said, if you don't want to work on it, or can't afford the down time of having someone else work on it for you, then, yeah, you might wanna bail.

A Ford Focus of any variation is BORING when compared to the CRD in terms of what you have to do to keep it going. Change the oil, rotate the tires, throw a set of plugs and filters at it when needed. Ditto for the timing belt. But that's it! Routine stuff, no special tools (except for maybe the T-Belt) and you are off and running. Hope this helps.

On a side note, being from Morgan County, I can attest to the fun of driving through the hills of Monroe county, especially at high rates of speed on a 2 wheeled vehicle on 46 or 37S like a rocket across the hills of Bloomington. :pepper:

The message is pretty consistent Mike.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

MRausch82 wrote:

Drewd wrote:

......T.U. story: Worked for a female officer in Afghanistan. I used Tango Uniform in a sentence in front of her and she said, "What exactly do you mean by Tango Uniform?" Without batting an eye, I replied, "Ma'am, it means totallly useless........"

Haha!! I say "tango uniform" and most people have no freakin idea what that means. Even the abbreviation "T.U." gets some questions. I usually just go all the way and say "tits up." I offend a lot of folks, whats a few more...
What Hyundai are you looking at?

I'll probably end up with an Elantra but would like a Santa Fe with the 2.0T engine. I know lots of happy Hyundai owners who swear by their reliablity. I figure it can't be worse than a Jeep.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:43 am

MRausch82 wrote:

Drewd wrote:

......T.U. story: Worked for a female officer in Afghanistan. I used Tango Uniform in a sentence in front of her and she said, "What exactly do you mean by Tango Uniform?" Without batting an eye, I replied, "Ma'am, it means totallly useless........"

Haha!! I say "tango uniform" and most people have no freakin idea what that means. Even the abbreviation "T.U." gets some questions. I usually just go all the way and say "tits up." I offend a lot of folks, whats a few more...
What Hyundai are you looking at?

May daughter is a paramedic - her phrase is DRT (dead, right there) :dead:

! Mark

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:07 pm

What is the price of a new Diesel BMW, Audi, Mercedes, VW SUV or good used Jeep Cherokee with a Merc engine in it these days?

Considering what they are going for ..... a few misc. parts for our CRD doesn't look like much to me.

You want an inexpensive diesel SUV? Then get ready to pay out the nose for one , no matter which way you turn and the way I see it, the amount we spend on maintenance to keep ours running, is petty cash compared to the others.

Ok, so Chrysler made a big boobo by letting these rigs out the door without fully doing their RD, and leaving it up to the consumer to finish it off.

But I believe we've worked out most of the kinks here, with excellent info stored in our server. We have learned from experience how to keep these little tanks running. And remember that maintenance on a diesel is a lot more than a gasser, so be prepared to consider that when you decide to buy one.

The good thing is that there parts are becoming more available. Suppliers are popping up around us on the web all with competitive pricing.

Plus, we are working out most of the kinks on this forum and there are more than a few out there that have been having a good experience with theirs without any issues.

Where can you get an inexpensive diesel SUV with balls?

In my old age, nowadays I tend to look at the bright side of things.

Heck, If you do a search and read online about what Merc Bluetec owners had to do to get their SUV's fixed, you would kiss your CRD every morning and realize that it's cheap. They have problems too and minor engine work costs go from 8 - 15,000 dollar. Consider a VW, or an Audi, or BMW..... they have problems too..... do a search.

You want a diesel? Then expect to pay for one, otherwise buy yourself a Ford fiesta or whatever.

As for me I'll keep owning mine until some other better one comes about, but for now, I will abide by the Boy Scout Motto of: "Always be Prepared" and carry on.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:07 pm

racertracer wrote:

And remember that maintenance on a diesel is a lot more than a gasser,

HORSE PUCKY!

Shame on you for repeating that old wives tale. Diesels require exactly the same maintenance as a gasser, they just tend to actually BE USED MORE, so it only SEEMS like they need more maintenance.

Lets look at the list, hmm? I invite anyone to counter me on this if I am wrong somewhere. As always, the numbers vary by manufacturer.

..........Item.........Car Mileage......Diesel Mileage........Special Notes
Oil changes ----5000---------5000-------------Many new cars of gas or diesel are calling for Synthetic or synth blends. My family's new Chevy Equinox is 5k, synth blend. We will use full synth, thanks.
Fuel filters-------12000-------12k-25k
Glow Plugs-------X-----------"as needed"--------Could be 100k or more... Or a lot less. Varies.
Spark Plugs-------varies---------X---------------See glow plug decription.
Brakes - Yup.
Tires - Yup.
Fluids - Show me a difference in the other fluids, please?
TIMING BELTS (Ooh, the big one!)... Except MANY new gassers have these too - with the SAME fatal damage if the belt is ignored. Range varies, but is usually close or exceeding 100k.

The point? The maintenance is THE SAME between the fuels, the only difference is that places CHARGE MORE for the exact same procedure... Because we let them. Vote with your wallet, do not patronize a facility that charges you $95 for an oil change "because it is a diesel" when they charge the F-150 next to you $30 for the same work! 6 quarts of oil, and a spin-on filter... And he probably has the same overtorqued-and-stripped oil plug as you do, because everyone is using thin pans these days.

It is an old wives tale, and the longer that manure is spread around, the more people will continue to believe that diesels are to be avoided. This should go into the same "bad PR" file as "Diesels are dirty, slow and stinky" that GM created in the market with that abomination of the Olds Diesel from the late 70s.

Leeann · **Joined:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:19 pm **Posts:** 523

geordi wrote:

This should go into the same "bad PR" file as "Diesels are dirty, slow and stinky" that GM created in the market with that abomination of the Olds Diesel from the late 70s.

We had that one - Olds Cutlass Supreme wagon. An absolute dirty, useless, low mpg, hugely underpowered dog. And it cracked the heads at 65k miles. Piece of garbage.

I have no personal experience with owning a CRD, but I have ridden in one and driven one several times (and been behind ine in the road more than once). As far as I can tell, there is no comparison to the Olds diesel. The CRD has power, is smooth, is relatively quiet and is definitely not stinky or smoky.

I have a little Toyota Tercel I use to go to and from work (2 miles each way). It's a '93 and is an interference motor. The timing belt is good for 60k miles and the previous owner ignored the recommendation -twice. I got it for almost nothing after the second time because I had to have the head sent to a machine shop for a valve job. My brother-in-law has a working relationship with a machine shop, so I got it done relatively cheaply (and installed it myself). But it could have been a $2000 job on a vehicle hardly worth that. I think I had $150 in the head work, timing belt, gasket set and fluids. Had the belt been replaced in time, it would have been $50 for the belt plus whatever the shop charges for the labor and the PO would still have the car.

If you ignore standard/recommended maintenance, any vehicle can be expensive to own, regardless of diesel or gas. Do the recommended preventative maintenance and you will cut your expenses dramatically.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:17 pm

Hey, Now ... you giving me a shame on me?

Shame on you.

They are more labor intensive.

You need qualified mechanics, labor charge is more, parts costs more. You just don't give it a tune up and go. Unlike a gasser, expertise for a diesel is hard to come by.

Your not comparing apples to apples ........ it's a whole different world.

JL, your built up anger for the CRD is showing every which way you turn, take a baby aspirin before the bubble bursts and hurts you.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:31 pm

Well... I BAILED! Bought a '13 Focus ST today. I miss the Jeep, but the ST is more fun! I will be selling the spare parts for the CRD; new molar glow plug kit, extra glow plug (updated, new 5v), timing belt/serpentine belt, a bunch of pure one oil filters, a new molar fuel filter... Not sure what else.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:03 pm

racertracer wrote:

Hey, Now ... you giving me a shame on me?
Shame on you.
They are more labor intensive.
You need qualified mechanics, labor charge is more, parts costs more. You just don't give it a tune up and go. Unlike a gasser, expertise for a diesel is hard to come by.
Your not comparing apples to apples ........ it's a whole different world.
JL, your built up anger for the CRD is showing every which way you turn, take a baby aspirin before the bubble bursts and hurts you.

I don't have any pent up anger for the CRD - I loved it, when it ran. Unfortunately, the problems it had were many, and all caused by Chrysler.

I still dispute your claims about the maintenance however. It isn't a matter of needing qualified mechanics. That is true of any vehicle, especially now with the heavily computer controlled cars with variable valve timing and highly complex intake and emission systems. NOBODY gets to "give it a tune up and go" unless they are ignoring something.

The labor charge is more for diesels... Because the dealerships and unscrupulous shops have people that LET THEM charge more. That doesn't mean that the upcharge is legitimate. Compared against the complexity of any BMW, Merc, Audi, or even the current computer nightmares of Ford, Chevy and Toyota... I contend that all are equally complex in their own ways and require skilled technical mechanics to fix them. What fuel they burn is irrelevant, unless the shop CHOOSES to make the distinction. If they do, I certainly would not have any work done there, because they are paying attention to irrelevant things.

Think of it like a shop charging an extra $50/hour labor for working on cars that are blue. Not for any other reason - just that they are blue. That is ridiculous, and any shop that did that would quickly be found out and publicly reviled. This is exactly the same type of situation.

The situation with parts cost is a little different, because many diesel-specific parts are (supposed to be) made to a tougher standard so they are more durable. Comes back to the premise that a diesel is designed to WORK, and frequently is asked to do more than just transport around people.

Would you consider it acceptable to pay $90 for an oil change on a motorhome... Or $140 for an oil change and air filter change on a generator? These are current prices.
These prices are also VERY predatory, because there is nothing technically different about doing an oil change on a motorhome or its generator. Open the plug, drain. Change spin filter, refill. Why do they charge such prices at Camping World (a major RV service, repair, and retailer)

Because it is an RV. Also because they can. The vast majority of RV owners are elderly, and possibly do not wish to bother with the labor. Ok, I can respect that. I'm lazy sometimes and will pay for a car wash instead of doing it myself. This is a problem with persisting in myths. Merchants like these myths, because they make more money.

"Maintenance costs more because it is an RV - there is a house on top of the same motor that drives a Suburban around."
"Maintenance costs more because it is a diesel - There is a vast difference in how this computer controlled engine with a timing belt operates from every other computer controlled engine."
"Maintenance costs more because it is a green car. Green cars are well known for being harder to work on."

To keep the CRD or to bail...

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