I'm about to scream.

I drove 1900 miles after my son put a a couple hundred miles on the jeep. During this time, it used no water that I could tell.

It certainly didn't the 1900 miles. Now, I've driven it about 250 miles, and it almost emptied the reservoir. I have gotten it fully up to temp (195 stant thermostat), driven around, and stopped and there's no pressure under the cap. even after driving hard.

There are no water leaks outside that drip, and no smell of antifreeze under the hood. But the water's going away. Again.

I MUST have a reliable rig to earn my living with. Now, when the head gasket went before, it was obvious, as the water would get into the cylinder and hydrolock it when you tried to start it, and it built pressure under the cap after it ran a bit. Of course, the amount of water leaking was large.

Any suggestions?

Or do you want it?

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

The thermal expansion rate of aluminum is double that of cast iron or steel. Installing head studs that do not allow for the thermal expansion, the head corrugations in the gasket have to take up all the give to compensate. Then the head gasket flattens out, becomes thinner and leaks. Before stretch bolts, head gaskets with aluminum heads did not last as long as they do now because the head bolts did not yield to compensate for the expansion of the aluminum head. If the head were cast iron instead of aluminum, the studs would expand at the same rate as the head and not be an issue. If ARP had been compensated for their engineering time to design a stud with the right stretch to compensate for thermal expansion of the aluminum head, then, tested and validated, you would not be having your problem. When I read the threads on the ARP Head Studs, it sounded like matching up the dimensions was all that was being done. No company can invest Engineering time and testing expenses to produce a limited number of head studs with no chance of recovering their investment.

The Laws of Physics are universal and not forgiving, Bean Counter Engineers (like the morons who push 0W-40 oil when the engine was designed for 10W-40) or those who gamble with designs have no exemptions.

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Above freezing, a 10w-40 is the same weight as a 0w-40.

As far as the thermal expansion of aluminum having ANYTHING to do with leaking heads - Sorry, but I disagree. There are many many TDIs running around with ARP studs in them, and they have functionally the same setup as the CRD: An iron block, laminated steel head gasket, and the aluminum head. I have not heard of a single instance of a failure like you describe.

The factory bolts on the CRD have been tested by multiple people, myself included. Other members have seen the head yield with as little as 140 lbs of torque on the bolt head. I personally have attempted to make the bolt FAIL by over-torquing it, and at 250lb-ft the flutes on the head rounded off. The bolt shaft NEVER stretched or failed. It is my opinion that these bolts would never yield under normal factory usage. While they might be CALLED TTY bolts, in this application, they are simply large non-flexible bolts.

The usage of ARP studs applies much more consistent and measurably-precise clamping force versus the wide threads of the factory bolts. On vehicles that I have disassembled, the factory bolts have had inconsistent removal torque, some far in excess of 120 lbs, while some have been as low as 100. This inconsistency suggests a possible source for the head gasket problems, rather than the tens of thousands of vehicles with or without stretch bolts that have aluminum heads and do not have gasket leaks.

I do not disagree that thermal expansion COULD be a contributing factor, but within this application, these factory bolts are far oversized and do not provide any local yielding to prevent the head itself from compacting - if that is indeed what is happening to cause the loss of coolant.

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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Pwrwagon- I have a thought for you: Have you tried a static pressure test or a leak-down test? You can make a rig to do this yourself, all you really need is a plug that fits the radiator cap with a tire valve threaded into it. Pressurize the system with a compressor to 16 lbs (this is normal operating pressure) and see if you can see / hear any leaking.

Just while I was typing this, it occurred to me that it COULD be the actual radiator cap itself. If the thermal spring in that goes bad, then it could be venting pressure and water to the overflow side of the bottle, or out the drain.

If you do a pressure leak-down test and the system holds pressure for at least several hours... Well, I don't know where the next step would be. Obviously the water has to be going somewhere.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Is there any possibility that the EGR cooler has a leak?

That would explain no pressure but still a coolant loss.

how do you bypass it? I'll just disconnect the EGR control. I have the MAF sensor on the air cleaner unplugged anyway.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

Odd. The normal quick test for combustion to coolant leak is on a cold engine crank up and run briefly (like 30 seconds) and then check for pressure under the radiator cap. The reason for the brief crank up is to PREVENT the pressure buildup that one expects as the coolant heads toward operating temperature and expands. If it expands enough to reach the pop off pressure of the radiator cap then the cap valve opens and coolant pressure is reduced by venting coolant into the recovery side of the tank. This basic design has been around for decades and obviates the olden days need to constantly check coolant level because, absent the recovery tank, back then the radiator cap simply vented "excess" coolant pressure by dumping coolant on the ground.

You say after operating a full engine temp there is no pressure. That's physically impossible unless your coolant level is incredibly low or the radiator cap is so bad it's venting pressure constantly. I suspect the latter. Get a new cap in the proper pressure range (should be written on the top).

Other wise there are a host of places, other than the head gasket, where you can lose lots of coolant without seeing anything. Pressure test is good but a) may not work on a cold system and b) won't tell you where the leak is if you lose pressure. Best bet is get some coolant UV dye at any parts store (under $10) and a UV light (under $20); dump dye in coolant; drive like normal for a couple of days; and then in a shady area with minimal ambient light use the UV light to look for a leak. Don't forget the EGR cooler on the driver's side or the oil cooler on the passenger side in front of the turbo (may have to remove heat shield or the bottom edge of the timing belt inner cover (where a leaky water pump would drip) or the heater core drip hose on the firewall in front of passenger (heater core leaks are hard to find by fluid would come out there and typical the heated air smells of antifreeze).

This is not a CRD problem it's an any water cooled engine problem.

Can the EGR cooler be bypassed? Yes if you have a GDE tune and there are how too write ups. With just the MAF disconnected I don't know the answer for sure.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

No tune needed to bypass. You can block off the egr with a coin. I disconnected the pipe that runs behind the engine, inserted a coin, used the clamp to hold the coin in place, welded the pipe shut. I then disconnected the FCV so that it would remain open. This does throw a check engine light, but does not put it in limp mode. The MAF sensor can be reconnected. You can then bypass the egr cooler.

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My collection of CRD's:
2005 Deep Beryl Green Pearlcoat
2006 Light Khaki Metallic Clearcoat
2006 Inferno Red Crystal Pearlcoat
2006 Midnight Blue Pearlcoat
2006 Gold Limited
2015 Black Ecodiesel
2015 Black Ecodiesel 2

Using a coin in the EGR pipe - that is a novel solution... Use a government product to solve a government problem!


Disconnecting the hoses to the EGR cooler are not hard, the easiest way to do this that I know of is to directly route the nipple on the side of the head (between the #2 and #3 glow plugs) up to the coolant pipe that crosses the top of the engine right behind the timing cover. The metal pipe can be eliminated entirely, and the only other thing it feeds down there is the EGR cooler.

You will want to have a tune or an SEGR to avoid a check engine light / code if you block the EGR pipe itself (something I fully support) and as for the FCV... Removing the center disc is the simplest solution to killing that. 2 screws, and leave the shaft and the rest of it in place. It is completely non-functional without the disc.

Papaindigo makes a good point that I missed in your original thread - there isn't ANY pressure even at operating temperature? Without the presence of a MASSIVE leak, sucking all the water away within a few miles, the system isn't sealed. Radiator caps are cheap Chinese crap, and they do go bad. That is the cheapest solution, especially if you do a leak-down test with a test cap and it doesn't show anything leaking.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

So I drove 150 miles today... and it didn't go down at all.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

Air bubble before then?

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

No, I don't think so.

As I said, my son picked it up from the mechanic. Drove it a week. I made sure the fluids were all full before I left. Then I flew back to oregon and drove it to illinois. It didn't lose water from Oregon to IL, total of 1900 miles.

Then, over the next 5 days, I ran around town and one short trip, and it went from the "full" mark to just barely anything in the reservoir. I put more water in, and it went down again. Then, I drove it today and the level in the tank went up a bit when warm, and then back down a bit when cool, and up again when warm - like it should. I went over 150 miles, half of it 70+ freeway, the rest a mix of 15 mph to 55 mph roads and several stops.

I'll just keep watching it. As I said, there's never any pressure in the tank, even after driving on the freeway. That's not THAT unusual. My old slant six can be run as hard as it will go, in hot weather, towing, and it won't get any pressure until or unless you shot it off hot (no cool-down before shutting off). Yes, you can pull the radiator cap after pulling into a rest area without even shutting it off, and no pressure or water spout.

I'm gonna spend some time tomorrow digging around looking for more places it could leak. It has a new WP, head gasket, tb, and idler from ID Parts. And I put in a Stant thermostat, because it wouldn't get fully warm unless you had it floored climbing long steep grades at 80. And now the heater works good. You had to have full hot to get the cabin lukewarm when it was 25 degrees outside, now it'll bake you out at 40 degrees almost immediately.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

Did the mechanic remove the thermostat or any of the upper coolant hoses allowing the coolant to drain?

I have experienced air in the head when replacing the thermostat by doing just that.

I partially drained the coolant when replacing the thermostat and then refilled system via the expansion tank, only to discover that refilling it in this way I allowed air in the head and in the heater core.

When air gets in the heater core, I found that it is difficult to get out, I think it just rests on top somewhere. That is why the no heat in cab happens..... and I have no explanation for why this happens. But I have experienced it and so have many others. As you know, having air in the head is big problem for our CRD.

Do the following: find a steep hill and point the nose to the sky, open the plastic twist valve on top of the radiator and let the engine run for a spell allowing the any air to escape, then close it and see if the coolant level drops any more.

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2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"

He removed the head, so I would expect so.



Ok.




No, the heater didn't heat because the engine didn't get warm.



I'll try that.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

Checking for air is probably worth doing but I doubt that's the issue assuming the coolant refill is done right. There is no inline coolant valve on the heater (e.g. you don't have to have heat "on" to do this but it won't hurt) so by right I mean on a cold engine:
1. lower radiator drain valve closed
2. upper radiator vent valve open
3. add 6.6qts (my best estimate of correct amount of coolant to get a 50/50 mix) to the tank on the firewall
4. continue fill with demineralized water until fluid begins to come out of the upper radiator vent valve
5. burp upper radiator hose and continue fill until it won't burp
6. close upper radiator vent valve
7. continue filling the tank until ca. 3/4" above the midline
8. do 2-3 cold to hot to cold drive cycles and recheck level of coolant in tank - should drop to just a bit above the midline as residual air bleeds out of the system.

My gut says you have a bad/sticky radiator cap that's intermittently venting coolant out of the tank on the firewall. Radiator caps are cheap; replace and see if it helps.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I looked the cap over. It's brand new. I see no evidence of it blowing water out.

However, I did do some air bleeding and there WAS quite a bit of air in the radiator and the little return line from the top of the radiator to the tank had no liquid in it. Basically, it had never been purged. When I first opened the bleed, no water came out and I had to add (my driveway slants a bit) water to get it to fill the radiator and displace the air. I even got the air out of the return from the top of the radiator.

Then I got it hot by driving a few miles, and it got just a slight bit of pressure under the cap - I never did before that I could tell. The water in the tank was warm enough to have a little bit of steam trickle out with the cap off and it running.

I'll give it a week and see if keeps dropping. I don't think it will. At least I hope not.

I might be doing this all for nothing but a learning experience. I finally caught on that it has green stuff in it and I find it should have the orange stuff in it. Why can't people look things up and do it right???

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

COLOR MEANS NOTHING ANYMORE. That said, if there is the slightest question, then a fresh water flush and fresh HOAT fill is cheap insurance.

Everyone knows my feelings on dealer monkeys... unfortunately, many non-dealer techs mean well, but also miss the mark too.

Nobody knows or cares about your vehicle like you do. Best let the work be done by the one that cares the most, right?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

I would if I could. I have no shop to work in.

I am the son of a mechanic, who has done mechanic stuff all his life, and was a diesel repair shop tech (vehicles AND injection systems) for 13 of those years.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.

Neither do I. As Geordi can testify, not only do I not have a shop, I have no garage, and I did my stud replacement/TB under a tent and a tarp in midwinter. (with heaters to keep my fingers from freezing) It can be done at least as long as there are no local regulations against it (HOA, zoning, etc.) When I was having temp issues, I figured out that the PO had put the wrong coolant in and did a drain/flush refill to get the incorrect coolant out.

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Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

RacerTracer's suggestion about parking it on a steep hill nose up is a good addition to Papa's list.
It also helps to loosen the hose that runs across the top front where it goes into the Tstat, IIRC. Even after the radiator vent ran wet I got air out of that. I would also add that I put a shop vac on the reservoir AFTER I closed all the other vents and got some air out that way too. Don't jam it in, put your hand around it and vary the amount of suction on the tank until you don't get any more burping. That gets the heater core, the head and everything. Doing it that way, I filled the tank to the mark and have never added coolant since, and I check it regularly.

I used to think that people who designed cars knew what they were doing. I also used to think that people who wrote repair and maintenance manuals knew what they were doing. (I used to believe in Santa Claus, too ) Working on the CRD has irrevocably removed any vestige of respect I have for factory engineers, dealers and factory maintenance manuals. Not saying they are all bad, but I will never again take the factory manual at face value, but will look at things myself and make my own judgments.

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Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

There's rules against almost everything but breathing here.

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05 CRD Sport in blue. Suncoast TC and ARP studs.

I have the Sealey timing kit I'll loan out.