MPG ..... and would you buy a CRD again ???

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:46 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I'm getting in the low 20's - city or highway

What does your 5-STAR Jeep dealership say about that?

Mine has never been back to the dealer. As much trouble as people are having getting major failures repaired, I figure a MPG complaint would be like a fart in a windstorm. I would mention it if I went in for something else, but till then I'll try to figure it out myself.

Reggie · **Posted:** Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:28 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Dave,

My mileage has ranged from 21-23 in city driving, 28 to 32 mpg highway. Would I do it again ? Not on your life, even though I really like mine when its not breaking down. I am a diesel enthusiast, but I would not buy any diesel from DCX after this experience. Their ability and committment at a corporate level to handle problems when they do arise is the real problem with their diesel offerings in the US.

The 2004.5 Dodge Ram I had with the Cummin diesel and the six speed was a great vehicle and I wish I had never downsized. Although it only got 16mpg city and 19 mpg on the highway, that's not a lot different than the 20.5mpg I'm getting now. The real sweet thing was no CCV & EGR on the new motor! Add that to the pure joy of driving a vehicle with 600ft/lbs of torque and a six speed tranny and you had a hard time wiping the smile from my face. If I can dump this one I'm going back to the Cummins.

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:15 pm

Regarding Cummins and no EGR, take a look at the new motors. The Heavy truck versions have had EGR since 2002 (except CAT ACERT).

With the new emissions requirements of 2007 engines you will be quite disappointed.

Regarding the repairs on the CRD. One thing you have to remember whenever you buy any piece of equipment or vehicle. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALERSHIP. By that I mean, you must carefully select the dealer you want to work with as well as the vehicle you are buying. This is CRITCAL with autos just as much as Ag tractors or heavy trucks.

I go out of my way to use a dealer that is farther away than 5 others just because I have developed a good relationship with them with my last 4 vehicle purchases. They do what they promise and take care of my concerns. This is true about my ag purchases as well. I don't use the closest dealer, I use one that get me the parts and service I want and need.

Next time, whatever vehicle you purchase, shop for the best dealer as well. You will not regret it.

Cliff

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:01 pm

Cowpie1 wrote:

Regarding Cummins and no EGR, take a look at the new motors. The Heavy truck versions have had EGR since 2002 (except CAT ACERT).

With the new emissions requirements of 2007 engines you will be quite disappointed.

Regarding the repairs on the CRD. One thing you have to remember whenever you buy any piece of equipment or vehicle. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALERSHIP. By that I mean, you must carefully select the dealer you want to work with as well as the vehicle you are buying. This is CRITCAL with autos just as much as Ag tractors or heavy trucks.

I go out of my way to use a dealer that is farther away than 5 others just because I have developed a good relationship with them with my last 4 vehicle purchases. They do what they promise and take care of my concerns. This is true about my ag purchases as well. I don't use the closest dealer, I use one that get me the parts and service I want and need.

Next time, whatever vehicle you purchase, shop for the best dealer as well. You will not regret it.

Cliff

I have for years bought my vehicles the same way. If I can walk in and talk with the tec's and part's guys and see they know their business and have a good service manager I buy there instead of down the road where I could save a couple hundred on a sale but have lousy service when I bring the vehicle in for whatever reason.

jeepcrd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:28 am

Cowpie1 wrote:

One thing you have to remember whenever you buy any piece of equipment or vehicle. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALERSHIP.

That's the hardest part right there. I finally found, and bought from, a dealership I trust but it's 70 miles from home. Closest dealership is only 8 miles from my home. I "interviewed" approximately 12 dealerships/service departments and none of them knew diesel Jeeps from a hole in the ground. Lucky number 13 got my business.

But, the distance, if I break down, is prohibitive so not sure what I will do if it ever happens.

Thus far, I've got 13,200 miles on an '05 CRD built last June with no problems.

I only had one or two delayed shifts into reverse and had the first filter tranny TSB done (only oil return filter replaced) and ECM, TCM reflash TSB done at 8,000 miles as preventative maintenance. Occassional shudder (tranny, fuel, electronics, EGR, who knows what the real cause is...) around 53mph as described on this board as the "tranny shudder" but as of yet, I'm not convinced it's the tranny - just an occassional ghost for now. I would buy this CRD Jeep again if no other diesels were available again in the SUV category. Otherwise, who knows :?:

I have not done the "elephant hose mod" as I would feel too guilty about polluting. If my intake doesn't clog until 180k+ miles like some of the VWs, then good, because I dbout that this KJ will hold up longer than that in the MidWest winter salt let alone under normal wear and tear.

It's already a P.I.T.A. keeping track of 12k front and rear diff lube changes, 6k engine oil changes, 6 to 12k air filter changes, and everything in between so I'm not going to complicate it more by adding mods to the engine bay. If it sludges up, so be it.

Best mileage is 24.5mpg. Worst is 17mpg. Average is 22mpg. I have oversize tires, lift kit, and a VERY heavy right foot.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Most, I suspect, know that I am ok with my CRD. However, I was very wary of buying an "american" car as I had not purchased one in a long time. I did what is known in the business world as "due dilligence" and checked out both the car and the local dealerships. I fully realize that the crd is JUST a liberty with a different engine and subject to all the problems that liberties (or is it libertys?) have. If anyone thinks that they will get 300,000 miles on the jeep because of the crd, they are clearly on drugs. Maybe the engine will still be running, but the rest of the vehicle will be in shambles.

I had my choice of 4 local dealers. One had an awful reputation with a web site dedicated by people with service dept horror stories. The closest dealership sales people were swine and the third was ok, but not convienient. The place where I finally got the Jeep gave me a good deal and, more importantly, is also a Dodge truck dealer with a lot of experience with diesels. I spoke with one of the diesel techs prior to the purchase and everything he said about the crd has been true, including the wait till 20k miles for "break-in.

Having said all the above, I would do it again if for no other reason as there are NO options in this type vehicle in comparison to the CRD.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:21 am

vtdog wrote:

I spoke with one of the diesel techs prior to the purchase and everything he said about the crd has been true, including the wait till 20k miles for "break-in.

That is the best advice...I think we will get better mileage down the road. As seen by the Oil Analysis thread, there are some break-in (read wear-in) needed and the first oil samples show that clearly.

railguy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:45 am

My CRD is a 2005 (2/05) build date. Just over 10K miles (not my primary vehicle). I hand calculate my mpg every tank. I got less than 20 mpg once. Below zero weather, winter blend fuel, not much highway driving on the tank. I just got my best on an all-highway tank this weekend (albeit all above 5,000 ft. elevation over a couple of mountain passes)--31.9 mpg! I do not baby it when driving, but no "jackrabbit" starts and I follow the speed limit. I notice a definite decline in mpg over 65-70 mph. Also, a headwind will kill it, too. Unlike a gas 4WD, though, it gets good fuel economy when off-roading--idling and low rpm is where the diesel beats a gasser on fuel economy every time.

One TSB done in 2005. No EGR issues yet. I'm hoping they have the design problem solved by the time mine goes south, when and if it does.

NetworkMD · **Joined:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:36 pm **Posts:** 25

Regarding Cummins and no EGR, take a look at the new motors. The Heavy truck versions have had EGR since 2002 (except CAT ACERT).

"With the new emissions requirements of 2007 engines you will be quite disappointed.

Regarding the repairs on the CRD. One thing you have to remember whenever you buy any piece of equipment or vehicle. YOU ARE BUYING THE DEALERSHIP. By that I mean, you must carefully select the dealer you want to work with as well as the vehicle you are buying. This is CRITCAL with autos just as much as Ag tractors or heavy trucks.

I go out of my way to use a dealer that is farther away than 5 others just because I have developed a good relationship with them with my last 4 vehicle purchases. They do what they promise and take care of my concerns. This is true about my ag purchases as well. I don't use the closest dealer, I use one that get me the parts and service I want and need.

Next time, whatever vehicle you purchase, shop for the best dealer as well. You will not regret it.

Cliff"

Good advice, and I know it is also important for the high lvel DC Mangement to ensure Service is #1. I know I may get flamed but I went into this purchase knowing it was a new venture for DC, and being a diesel proponent for a long time with the RAM Cummins, and Jetta TDI I appreciate the effrt they made, and hopefully continue to improve on until we have some more efficent energy to get don the road, ust my .02

Vox Fatalis · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:48 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

I am thinking these "Sounders" :lol:

think they are doing 70 MPH but that is I-5/I-405 70 which means speed up to 70, slow down to 30, stop, speed up to 70.........

Har har har...

Olympia's not as bad as the Seattle Metro area... GAWD I hate commuting in this area! I miss Olympia... heh.

I'm averaging 23-24MPG on my regular commute (as so aptly described by Cowcatcher), and 26MPG when I do something like drive to Seaside OR to visit my folks in Olympia.

I DO noticed really bad issues with the tranny and having shift hard, and not decide whether it's going to be in 4th or 5th gear between 50MPH and 70MPH. This experience is pronounced dramatically when using the Predator chip (which I've pulled as a result for now). Taking it in Monday to Lithia Jeep in Renton to have it checked out.

As to whether I'd do it again.. I think so. For an SUV in its class and price range, I think you get a lot of bang for the buck. Gas is cheaper, the mileaege is still halfway decent, and you plenty of room for your SUV-ish activities (camping, wheelin, etc).

If you're looking for a commute with some decent room, go with a Passat TDI.

Probably my next purchase...

jeepusa · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:28 pm

Quote:

vtdog wrote:
Most, I suspect, know that I am ok with my CRD. However, I was very wary of buying an "american" car as I had not purchased one in a long time. I did what is known in the business world as "due dilligence" and checked out both the car and the local dealerships. I fully realize that the crd is JUST a liberty with a different engine and subject to all the problems that liberties (or is it libertys?) have. If anyone thinks that they will get 300,000 miles on the jeep because of the crd, they are clearly on drugs. Maybe the engine will still be running, but the rest of the vehicle will be in shambles.

Believe it or not I'm not on drugs and I still have every expectation that I could easily reach 300,000 miles on my liberty as I have over 120,000 miles on my 2002 now and has required virtually no repairs just replacement of wear items such as tires, rotors, pads and fluids. I realize that some time in the next 160,000 miles I will probably have to replace some parts but overall I consider the Liberty platform to be very reliable additionally it was also announced last year I believe that the Liberty is the most reliable platform the DC builds which includes all of Chrysler and MB. I bought the CRD for the gas mileage and have really been enjoying the torque but I’m still breaking it in as I have just 250 miles on it and I am averaging 25.5 MPG (mixed driving and computer calculated as I haven’t added fuel as yet) I’m hoping that I wont have a lot of the problems that I’ve read about here but I’m sure I’ll at least a few but that said I would most likely buy one again. But if you see me in 3 years I may be bald and have a flat forehead from pulling my hair out and beating my head against the wall.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

You will need the drugs for the headache

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I know I may get flamed but I went into this purchase knowing it was a new venture for DC, and being a diesel proponent for a long time with the RAM Cummins, and Jetta TDI I appreciate the effrt they made

I don't think anyone would flame you for that thought. If they do, ignore them. As strange as it seems, I appreciated the opportunity to buy a diesel Liberty - I already had an 02 V6 gas Liberty (still do) and didn't need to be convinced about the vehicle's quality. Same transmission on the 02 as well. No real problems in 6 year, 1 minor repair in a single visit, not a single flash on PCM/TCM/BCM. Still running great, sounds and runs like brand new.

I still think the Liberty CRD was the best diesel value in the US period. A good engine, VGT and plenty of power. My unwillingness to buy any further diesels from DCX stems from their poor handling of those who do have some major issues with their CRD's. If your CRD is trouble free, or only suffers from a failed egr, I'd guess you're probably home free( with one possible exception I'll mention later) and should enjoy many years of happy diesel power.

For those of us with a problematic CRD, its a matter of dealing with DCX. I'd say you buy more than the dealer, you buy DCX, as they back the warranty not the dealership, and their engineering support for any undiscovered issues once these vehicles hit the customers driveways.

Having worked on many engineeing projects, I can say that sometimes there is no way in advance to tell when a major issue will surface, but you darn well better take care of it if it happens. If you don't, you'll find your customers don't want your services or product next time around. In this case, there is some anecdotal evidence that DCX knew early on there was a problem with the TC. An engineer who works for VM posted last year that DCX knew the TC wasn't strong enough and provided details right down to what was causing the shuddering feeling when accelerating and then cruising. I noted his post, but didnt think too much about it until the reports of failing TC's started happening last year.

If he was accurate, then the TC issue will keep occuring as more miles pile up on more CRD's. If he was blowing smoke, then the reports will subside. It's one of those things that only time and miles will reveal.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:42 pm

What were the details? Do you remember?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

He claimed that the springs in the TC lockup clutch were too weak for the torque of the R428 and were compressing flat instead of absorbing the energy. I couldn't find any springs in the FSM and asked where they were shown. An answer came back and sure enough, the drawing showed a TC lockup clutch with springs in it.

His point was that DCX didn't put enough effort into obtaining a heavier duty TC and its shortcoming was identified within VM's offices. If he was correct, it would appear that the TC and not the tranny itself is the weak link, but its a part that takes down the whole shebang when it fails. If his information was accurate, then the TC's in the CRD will continue to fail on a certain percentage of vehicles. If his information was wrong, they should be fine. I would guess that by the end of 2007 we should know more as the miles accumulate on the CRD's. One nice thing about only 11,000 built is that statistically, there shouldn't be a very high numeric number of TC failures if all is well.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:31 pm

well we should find a shop that will upgrade our TC, there are all kinds of shops out there for
the big rigs, surely we can find a reputable shop and get this fixed. Most are on the West
Coast that seem to specialize in TC.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

That's one of the options I'm looking into. I'm debating whether to rebuild the tranny at my own cost and have them install a Trango shift kit, install a new heavy duty torque converter and be done with it. So far, that's about $3K. The only down side to this is that if any warranty work ever had to be peformed for the 7/70K duration, if I was out of town, during the rebuild I would lose all the good parts. It's a one way street - if I do it, I'm my own warranty on the tranny from now on. The way things look lately, that's not all that bad :-)

You are correct - most of the tranny shops that do this on the 545RFE seem to be on the west coast.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:08 pm

Well so far the transgo kit has taken care of mine, should it go out, then time is money, and there is only so
much aggrevation I am willing to bear while waiting for them to fix it and not do what is necessary.
With the transgo I am on my own anyway, been there before, either it is right or its gone.

KJbob · **Posted:** Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:24 am

Currently I have about 16,500 miles on mine. I came from a 50mpg Jetta TDI but wanted more utility out of my vehicle (towing, 4wd for winters, more storage room for family outings) so I bought my CRD. I'm getting about 25mpg with mostly highway driving. Not as good as the Jetta but not too bad for an 4wd SUV.

I've had two "customer statisfaction" notifications performed: the BCM, and the tranny filter. Other than that no other problems as of yet.

So far, I'll give this Jeep a thumbs up. :wink:

Trailbreaker · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:31 pm

Best decision I made!
I bought my CRD after knowing of all the issues.EGR,Trans,CCV
27,000 Miles On my first,Jeeps second EGR.(Bought used)
Best MPG 29
Avg.MPG 26.5
Worst MPG 20 (Note! this was towing a large trailer)
Winter MPG Avg.24
Love the Power,Milage,4x4,TowingCap,

MPG ..... and would you buy a CRD again ???

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