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 Post subject: Re: How long can the VM428 engine be expected to last?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:17 am 
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Me-By-Myself-and-I wrote:
I question if the GDE Hot Tune could be placing too much stress on the motor to effectively cook the head. A good question would be, how many CRD's with head gasket failures ran with the GDE Hot Tune? We don't hear about head gasket failures in Europe.



True, but the CRD engines do seem to run fairly hot, with most failures related to failed lubricTion in the bottoms end.

I don't know if female of the ecu for more power are that common.

And the Cherokee CRD isn't really used for towing much in the UK that I have seen.

Small trailers is about it.

I suspect the demographics are different in both places. In the UK the Cherokee is considered a lifestyle vehicle by many, especially the later 2.8 auto, I think people were more likely to buy the 2.5 with a manual box for towing and when the vehicle was going to be used for work.

Perhaps the issue is related to the higher state of tune in the 2.8?

With things like the GDE tune pushing the top end past its design limits?

As all research I have done would indicate that the top ends are the same.

The 2.8 is still fitted to the Chrysler Voyager, I will do some checking and find out what the power of that is.

I suspect it is around the 150bhp level, the 2.5 VM in the TX4 is less than 120bhp.

Done a quick check 161 bhp and 265 ft/lbs. how does that compare with a GDE tuned Liberty?


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 Post subject: Re: How long can the VM428 engine be expected to last?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:16 am 
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bigjl wrote:
Done a quick check 161 bhp and 265 ft/lbs. how does that compare with a GDE tuned Liberty?

Per their web site:

Hot Tune 200 HP 364 ft.-lb.
Eco Tune 188 HP 335 ft.-lb.

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GDE Eco Tune Full Torque, GDE TCM Tune, Firestone Destination LE 225/75-16


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 Post subject: Re: How long can the VM428 engine be expected to last?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:15 pm
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Me-By-Myself-and-I wrote:
I question if the GDE Hot Tune could be placing too much stress on the motor to effectively cook the head. A good question would be, how many CRD's with head gasket failures ran with the GDE Hot Tune? We don't hear about head gasket failures in Europe.


Haven't done a study, but at least 5 or 6 CRDs WITHOUT tunes have shown HG problems that I can think of off hand, and probably many more. It would be interesting to study that, but absent such a study, my semi-educated take, based on what I have heard from others and what I personally have seen, is that HG failures are associated with air lock and poor cooling in the head due to poor FSM instructions for coolant replacement combined with the use of "TTY" bolts that don't yield used on a soft AL head with no precision ground washers under the bolt.

There is SIGNIFICANT variation on unbolting torque for as-installed head bolts, ranging from less than 100FPT to >250FPT, which means that there is significant variation on clamping force. The use of washers under the bolts, alone, will more than double the effective clamping force at each fastener, which is one of the main reasons to replace "TTY" stock bolts with studs or custom bolts with precision ground HD washers.

I suspect that the added heat load going from 2.5 L displacement to 2.8 may have been just enough to get just enough additional heat load into the head to cause problems not seen with the 2.5. The increased soot load in the US versions may play a role too, although off hand I cannot think of any reason why it should.

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 Post subject: Re: How long can the VM428 engine be expected to last?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:38 pm
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Dave01 wrote:
bigjl wrote:
Done a quick check 161 bhp and 265 ft/lbs. how does that compare with a GDE tuned Liberty?

Per their web site:

Hot Tune 200 HP 364 ft.-lb.
Eco Tune 188 HP 335 ft.-lb.


That is significantly more.

Though not much different to the figures you get from a Superchiped CRD in the UK.

Superchips are a long established tuner, I think one of the first if not the first in the UK, been around since '77.

A lot of their work is done using a rolling road, I assume it is the same at GDE.


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